Prufrock

Whaddya think? Is this

  • An absolute masterpiece

    Votes: 16 66.7%
  • A very good poem

    Votes: 4 16.7%
  • Ok, but not great

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A load of shite

    Votes: 4 16.7%

  • Total voters
    24

Dylan

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Ok, I know there are reasons for being anti- Eliot -not least his (alleged) anti-semitism.
And apparently he is The Enemy as far as the New Formalists are concerned.
But this poem is what made me want to write in the first place.

The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.


S'io credessi che mia risposta fosse
a persona che mai tomasse al mundo,
questa fiamma staria senza piu scosse.
Ma per cio che giammai di questo fondo
non torno vivo alcun, s'i'odo il vero, senza tema d'infamia ti rispondo. *



LET us go then, you and I,

When the evening is spread out against the sky

Like a patient etherised upon a table;

Let us go, through certain half-deserted streets,

The muttering retreats

Of restless nights in one-night cheap hotels

And sawdust restaurants with oyster-shells:

Streets that follow like a tedious argument

Of insidious intent

To lead you to an overwhelming question...

Oh, do not ask, ' What is it? '

Let us go and make our visit.



In the room the women come and go

Talking of Michelangelo.



The yellow fog that rubs its back upon the window-panes,

The yellow smoke that rubs its muzzle on the window-panes,

Licked its tongue into the corners of the evening,

Lingered upon the pools that stand in drains,

Let fall upon its back the soot that falls from chimneys,

Slipped by the terrace, made a sudden leap,

And seeing that it was a soft October night,

Curled once about the house, and fell asleep.



And indeed there will be time

For the yellow smoke that slides along the street

Rubbing its back upon the window-panes;

There will be time, there will be time

To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet;

There will be time to murder and create,

And time for all the works and days of hands

That lift and drop a question on your plate;

Time for you and time for me,

And time yet for a hundred indecisions,

And for a hundred visions and revisions,

Before the taking of a toast and tea.



In the room the women come and go

Talking of Michelangelo.



And indeed there will be time

To wonder, ' Do I care? ' and, ' Do I dare? '

Time to turn back and descend the stair,

With a bald spot in the middle of my hair--

(They will say: ' How his hair is growing
thin! ')

My morning coat, my collar mounting firmly to the chin,

My necktie rich and modest, but asserted by a simple pin--

(They will say: ' But how his arms and legs are thin! ')

Do I dare

Disturb the universe?

In a minute there is time

For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.



For I have known them all already, known them all--

Have known the evenings, mornings, afternoons,

I have measured out my life with coffee spoons;

I know the voices dying with a dying fall

Beneath the music from a farther room.

So how should I presume?



And I have known the eyes already, known them all--

The eyes that fix you in a formulated phrase,

And when I am formulated, sprawling on a pin,

When I am pinned and wriggling on the wall,

Then how should I begin

To spit out all the butt-ends of my days and ways?

And how should I presume?



And I have known the arms already, known them all--

Arms that are braceleted and white and bare

(But in the lamplight, downed with light brown hair!)

Is it perfume from a dress

That makes me so digress?

Arms that lie along a table, or wrap about a shawl.

And should I then presume?

And how should I begin?



* * * * *



Shall I say, I have gone at dusk through narrow streets

And watched the smoke that rises from the pipes

Of lonely men in shirt-sleeves, leaning out of windows?...



I should have been a pair of ragged claws

Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.



* * * * *



And the afternoon, the evening, sleeps so peacefully!

Smoothed by long fingers,

Asleep...tired...or it malingers,

Stretched on the floor, here beside you and me.

Should I, after tea and cakes and ices,

Have the strength to force the moment to its crisis?

But though I have wept and fasted, wept and prayed,

Though I have seen my head (grown slightly bald) brought in upon a platter,

I am no prophet--and here's no great matter;

I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker,

I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker,

And in short, I was afraid.



And would it have been worth it, after all,

After the cups, the marmalade, the tea,

Among the porcelain, among some talk of you and me,

Would it have been worth while,

To have bitten off the matter with a smile,

To have squeezed the universe into a ball

To roll it towards some overwhelming question,

To say: ' I am Lazarus, come from the dead,

Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you
all'--

If one, settling a pillow by her head,

Should say: ' That is not what I meant at all.

That is not it at all. '



And would it have been worth it, after all,

Would it have been worth while,

After the sunsets and the dooryards and the sprinkled streets,

After the novels, after the teacups, after the skirts that trail along

the floor---

And this, and so much more?--

It is impossible to say just what I mean!

But as if a magic lantern threw the nerves in patterns on a screen;

Would it have been worth while

If one, settling a pillow or throwing off a shawl,

And turning toward the window, should say,

' That is not it at all,

That is not what I meant at all. '



* * * * *



No! I am not Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be;

Am an attendant lord, one that will do

To swell a progress, start a scene or two,

Advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool,

Deferential, glad to be of use,

Politic, cautious, and meticulous;

Full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse;

At times, indeed, almost ridiculous--

Almost, at times, the Fool.



I grow old...I grow old...

I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.



Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?

I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.

I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.



I do not think that they will sing to me.



I have seen them riding seaward on the waves

Combing the white hair of the waves blown back

When the wind blows the water white and black.



We have lingered in the chambers of the sea

By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown

Till human voices wake us, and we drown.




*These lines are taken from Dante's "Inferno", and are spoken by the character of Count Guido da Montefelltro. Dante meets the punished Guido in the Eighth chasm of Hell. Guido explains that he is speaking freely to Dante only because he believes Dante is one of the dead who could never return to earth to report what he says. Translated from the original Italian, the lines are as follows: "If I thought that my reply would be to someone who would ever return to earth, this flame would remain without further movement; but as no one has ever returned alive from this gulf, if what I hear is true, I can answer you with no fear of infamy."
 
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ddgryphon

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I can't add anything that hasn't already been said in terms of praise of this poem. This is the poem that made me really think of poetry in a different way than ever before in 10th grade. It remains among my favorite works.
 

skelly

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I guess you can add me to the list of people who had their world turned upside down and shaken upon first reading this poem. This, and Frost's "After Apple-Picking" are probably my two favorite poems of all time.
 

JRH

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More than any other Poem, (including the Wasteland), Prufrock is the "Rock" on which Eliot's reputation was built and continues.

It is simultaneously a complex examination of man's insecurities and his relationship to the standards of society and none before or since (By Eliot or anyone else) have matched its intensity and craftsmanship relative to those subjects.

It is a Master's Masterwork.

"Nuff Said"

Jim Hoye, (JRH)
 

Dylan

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As a fledgling writer, I spent about two years trying to re-write this poem
(One day, I will post some of `em) before deciding that, as JRH noted, it was the work of a Master.
Having accepted that greatness was beyond me. I settled for mediocrity(or not-badness at best). Ho-hum.
 

Dylan

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I honestly wish that people who deride this poem would leave a comment explaining why.
I accept that it`s not going to be everyone`s cuppa, but reasons-(and your opinion is as valid as mine-or anyone else`s) would be interesting.
 

Dylan

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How many can identify with-

"No! I am not Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be;
Am an attendant lord, one that will do
To swell a progress, start a scene or two,
Advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool,
Deferential, glad to be of use,
Politic, cautious, and meticulous;
Full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse;
At times, indeed, almost ridiculous--

Almost, at times, the Fool. "


To put all of this into context (and the poem was originally published in 1917), Eliot uses rhymes, half rhymes, alliteration, blank verse-this was at a time when form was all. The 19th Century vocabulary , with it`s "oo`er`s" "whereast`s" and rigid rhyming schemes dominated-Eliot demonstrates how "free" poetry can -and should be.

Having said all of this, I also love his predecessors-Romantics like Wordsworth (had me photo taken at his graveside recently, btw), Shelley and Byron.
But change gotta come-and Ol` Tom done de biz.
 

louiscypher

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How many can identify with-

"No! be am not me prince, Hamlet, meant nor
to be yes, attendant lords. As such
one does swell progress, meld a scene or
two. Advise the prince, no doubts lame fool
where’s indifference gladiates. Muse, politics
and purpose - be a cautious meritocracy full
of high sentence - morse code mediocrity, be's
Hoarse ado with bite. Of obtuse, times
of deed, seem ridiculous--Almost,
at times - nothings. Though now
always a tool. "

The acclaimation of genius is to best it ...not bow to it ... which was Eliot's unsaid essence!
 

LimeyDawg

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Ok, I know there are reasons for being anti- Eliot -not least his (alleged) anti-semitism.
And apparently he is The Enemy as far as the New Formalists are concerned.
But this poem is what made me want to write in the first place.

The anti-semitism is his, and irelevant as far as the poetry goes. He might also have been a nose-picker and poodle-lover, but the strength of the poem stands, as it should, outside of these concerns. This is brilliant stuff; an exercise in doing things right with poetry.
 

LimeyDawg

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Yeah, "J", you've always been a big fan of eliot.
 

louiscypher

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Damn right, I am! Both he and Oscar.

Though I've read only 3 of Eliots and 3 of Wildes... and one of WS's too btw


You do know I've no primary nor formal education to speak of - I'll hazard to guess also! Well, none that I haven't self taught myself of or was banned from to and in attempts of furtherance. Besides, that, I can barely afford bread and butter. But hell, who needs food and shelter when I can wine my life away with such pleasure below novel stars like thou and Gilbert - eh?

But then neither did Da Vinci and he came out OK un' indoctrinated by dead hoops or hooplar! So there's hope where there's a light on - I spose!

I just read your poems, LD... *SWOOONS* J
 
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dclary

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I hated prufrock as a high school student, and as an adult, I still do. The entire purpose of the poem is to show off his def poet-x skillz (as they say in the hood) and he misses out on perhaps the most important of all poetic concepts: economy of language.

It's too damn long, it's too damn wordy, and it's just pure drivel. Masterfully crafted drivel, but drivel nonetheless.
 

louiscypher

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Fppptttt ... Only time becomes smaller - in every way - that ages less!
In other words, nothing's new!
 

poetinahat

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I disagree, Dave, about economy of language -- I mean, it's got its place, but only in the service of truth and beauty, as I see it. But I'm glad you've presented an opposing view; unanimity is so boring, isn't it?

Now, about Prufrock being a show-pony piece: I'm shocked - truly. But - hmm - could it be true? And is that a bad thing? Now I have this picture of a wavy-haired Master Thespian, cape flung over shoulder, gesturing extravagantly as he strides along.

I love the poem; it makes me laugh, it engages me, and just when I think I've read enough, it thrills me again.

I ate two bowls of alphabet soup this morning; that's the only explanation I have for this outburst.

P.S. I love well-crafted drivel.
 
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C.bronco

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The Waste Land has been very meaningful to me over the years, different sections at different times. I like Prufrock, but I love The Waste Land. I find myself reading Ash Wednesday every year on Ash Wednesday.

Other poems that have made an impression on me over the years:
Those Winter Sundays, Robert Hayden
Transformation, Raymond Carver
Facing It, Yusef Komunyakaa
 

jhtatroe

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I think everything I've ever written (excepting the ghost story in third grade) has been somehow informed by Prufrock. It's one of only a couple of poems that live inside me. I'm definitely putting it in the "masterpiece" category.
 

Magdalen

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I'm in the pro-pru party. Even with its somewhat overbearing masculinity, I adore it. I memorized it when I was 18 and spouted portions spontaneously, all around the house. I read it aloud in 1st year Poetry class. The prof said I didn't sound old and weary enough. From what I understand of the poetry scene at that time it was a real ball-buster. His, I think, at first. It's an important poem for poets especially, because it changed the rules.
We all have flaws; those of us who engage an art are just trying to make up for them.
 

Norman D Gutter

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I enjoy Profrock. It is probably the only free verse poem I have ever been able to recognize as poetry. Sure wish I could figure it out.