Will I get my pants sued off?

Steve W · Apr 28, 2007

Hi,

Am I right in thinking that you can mention any company or product as long as what you say is either good PR for them, or true (if what you say is bad)?

I know many people will advise not to say anything even remotely bad about anyone or anything, even if it's true, as it will jeopardise publication chances, etc, but, that aside for the moment, can you write whatever you like if it's true? And here I mean true as in the absolute truth, not just what you personally perceive to be true?

For example, could I mention Company A (a real company) in one paragraph, then in the next talk about the CEO of a nameless company and the disparity in pay between this CEO and the nameless company's lowest paid worker? This would imply that the company is doing something morally wrong in paying one man so much and another so little, so could it be seen as libel to Company A, even though it isn't directly mentioned and the real world statistics behind the observation are true? (I know 'morally wrong' is open to interpretation to some extent, but can we ignore that for the moment, and look at the overall idea, please)

Thanks for your time,
Steve

Jamesaritchie · Apr 28, 2007

Steve W said:
Hi,

Am I right in thinking that you can mention any company or product as long as what you say is either good PR for them, or true (if what you say is bad)?

I know many people will advise not to say anything even remotely bad about anyone or anything, even if it's true, as it will jeopardise publication chances, etc, but, that aside for the moment, can you write whatever you like if it's true? And here I mean true as in the absolute truth, not just what you personally perceive to be true?

For example, could I mention Company A (a real company) in one paragraph, then in the next talk about the CEO of a nameless company and the disparity in pay between this CEO and the nameless company's lowest paid worker? This would imply that the company is doing something morally wrong in paying one man so much and another so little, so could it be seen as libel to Company A, even though it isn't directly mentioned and the real world statistics behind the observation are true? (I know 'morally wrong' is open to interpretation to some extent, but can we ignore that for the moment, and look at the overall idea, please)

Thanks for your time,
Steve

You're probably just fine. I generally don't think it's a good idea to worry about such things. But good Lord, I HOPE there's a huge discrepancy in pay between a CEO and a janitor. If not, the thirty+ grand per year that college charges is a waste, isn't it. Dang, forget college and hand me a broom.

SpookyWriter · Apr 28, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
You're probably just fine. I generally don't think it's a good idea to worry about such things. But good Lord, I HOPE there's a huge discrepancy in pay between a CEO and a janitor. If not, the thirty+ grand per year that college charges is a waste, isn't it. Dang, forget college and hand me a broom.

While a janitor may make less than a CEO, at the end of the day when the toilets are cleaned and the floors shined who will be more satisfied with their performance?

Julie Worth · Apr 28, 2007

Is this a novel, or a communist polemic?

Michael Dracon · Apr 28, 2007

I don't think it's that much of a problem in this context, especially if you go for companies like Microsoft. I mean, almost anyone knows full well that Bill Gates loaded with money. So it's a rather easy reference.

As long as it's a reference for people to understand the situation it should be just fine. And you really should go for the most obvious real company you can think of. Because if the reader has no idea what you are refering to it will lose it's purpose in the novel.

Jamesaritchie · Apr 28, 2007

End

SpookyWriter said:
While a janitor may make less than a CEO, at the end of the day when the toilets are cleaned and the floors shined who will be more satisfied with their performance?

I'd say this depends on how each performed. I have been purely ticked off at bad janitors more often than I've been ticked off at bad CEOs. And I doubt there's a janitor out there who wouldn't trade places with a CEO in a second. I doubt there's a single CEO who desires to be a janitor.

SpookyWriter · Apr 28, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
I'd say this depends on how each performed. I have been purely ticked off at bad janitors more often than I've been ticked off at bad CEOs. And I doubt there's a janitor out there who wouldn't trade places with a CEO in a second. I doubt there's a single CEO who desires to be a janitor.

Yes, it is all about performance. The desire to clean up messes isn't always suited to a CEO. Whereas the lonely janitor accepts his fate in life and gladly cleans the stains left by CEO's who can't control their bowel movements.

Such is life. Yes?

benbradley · Apr 28, 2007

As long as your characters don't Rollerblade up to a copy machine so they can Xerox a dirty Kleenex, you'll be okay.

Zoombie · Apr 28, 2007

I don't think you're going to be sued. I'm slightly worried about a little exchange between my main charicter and a police man. The main charicter is named Jimmy, and the police officer asks him what his name is and Jimmy dosn't want to give away his real name, so he hurridly says, "James...uh...Kirk."

And it works becuase the police officer is an alien and dosn't watch Earth TV.

Is that sue worthy?

herdon · Apr 28, 2007

SpookyWriter said:
While a janitor may make less than a CEO, at the end of the day when the toilets are cleaned and the floors shined who will be more satisfied with their performance?

At the end of the day the janitor is passed out at the back of the bar where they have a small cot set up for him because he is a regular, and the CEO is standing on the roof of his company's skyscraper staring off the edge and imagining what it would be like to take a single step.

Neither of them are specifically thinking about their performance for that day.

louiscypher · Apr 29, 2007

What you should be more worried about here is the reader veiwing you as some sort of Feudalistic bigot/elitist.

As long as you nominate and justify/specify why Janitor X sucks, not 'All Janitors from A to Z' - mind, then the difference between a specific dislike for a certain agents manner - verses that of a generalisation about the entire focus group - is overcome. All you have to worry about then is deformation of the certain individual in question! But you can get around that problem too with suggestive or questioning language ... just be subtle.

God may have said to love thy neighbour, but he didn't mean ALL of them? (Mother T)

J

I'm no racist, I just hate everyone and everything equally!

SpookyWriter · Apr 29, 2007

Havlen said:
At the end of the day the janitor is passed out at the back of the bar where they have a small cot set up for him because he is a regular, and the CEO is standing on the roof of his company's skyscraper staring off the edge and imagining what it would be like to take a single step.

Neither of them are specifically thinking about their performance for that day.

And so the thoughts of each are no more mundane or less tranquil, as we should expect from individuals with the responsibility to sanitize our little piece of the world, than a clock maker who can't tell time.

Michael Dracon · Apr 29, 2007

Zoombie said:
I don't think you're going to be sued. I'm slightly worried about a little exchange between my main charicter and a police man. The main charicter is named Jimmy, and the police officer asks him what his name is and Jimmy dosn't want to give away his real name, so he hurridly says, "James...uh...Kirk."

And it works becuase the police officer is an alien and dosn't watch Earth TV.

Is that sue worthy?

Nah, that's just good humor

I loved it when they did something similar, but on purpose, in the movie Bodyguard. The guy there is testing out security and uses famous names to identify himself. He managed to get through without a problem with doing this, proving that security was a joke.

LitChick · Apr 29, 2007

In the end, when a publisher buys your book, if it's sue worthy, the editor will tell you to change it. For now, write what works best for your story.

KCH · Apr 29, 2007

What LitChick said. Just write a darn good novel.

Steve W · May 2, 2007

Hi guys,

Thanks. You're being a great help as usual.

(A communist polemic? Well, wouldn't you just know it -- the other character questions the speaker's politics, accusing him of being a communist for harbouring such outrageously philanthropic views.)

I'm quite surprised at the response to be honest. I figured it would be a much tougher call. (Still, it'll be nice if we're all co-defendants together!) Just watch someone with legal knowledge come and blow all these comments out of the water now.

Thanks again,
Steve

Soccer Mom · May 2, 2007

Just write the book. When you find an agent, they will let you know if it's something to worry about. An editor won't let it go to print if they think it is sue worthy.

TsukiRyoko · May 2, 2007

To avoid anything like this, I usually stick with fictional everything. *pulls pockets inside out* Ain't got no money for tha' suing.

Maryn · May 2, 2007

Tsuki, the fact that you have no money to be sued for does not stop the suit from proceding. We were sued not long ago for $23.5 million. We're a little short of that--about $23.499999 million's worth.

Maryn, glad the suit was dropped anyway

TsukiRyoko · May 2, 2007

Maryn said:
Tsuki, the fact that you have no money to be sued for does not stop the suit from proceding. We were sued not long ago for $23.5 million. We're a little short of that--about $23.499999 million's worth.

Maryn, glad the suit was dropped anyway

That's precisely why I try to stay away from anything that might get my broke ass sued.

picsbypat · May 3, 2007

Don't worry about having your pants sued off...the lawyers usually just go for the pocket that holds your wallet!

Seriously, as long as what you say is true, you should be OK.

Steve W · May 7, 2007

Hi guys,

Thanks. I figured no one could touch you if what you said was true. Nice to know so many people seem to believe that's the case. Hope we're all right!

Thanks again,
Steve

Thomas White · May 8, 2007

Is there anyway you can blatently imitate the company's name instead? Moca Cola, MyCrowSoft, that kind of thing. That way, you're at least partly protected against claims of libel, the written form of defamation. As mentioned earlier, your agent and publisher will have the answers for you anyway, when the time comes.

Diviner · May 8, 2007

This post causes me to wonder if a character who is a jerk says something defamatory, would a writer be less likely to be sued thanif a good guy expresses the same opinion?

About suits and defamation and all that, I think there are two concerns, if the libel is intended to do harm and if the assertion is actually true. I think truth is a defence, but intent is less provable.

Monkey · May 8, 2007

If you get your pants sued off, can I watch? :popcorn:

Will I get my pants sued off?

Steve W

Jamesaritchie

SpookyWriter

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

Michael Dracon

Urban Fantasy Geek

Jamesaritchie

SpookyWriter

benbradley

It's a doggy dog world

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse

herdon

What's up?

louiscypher

SpookyWriter

Michael Dracon

Urban Fantasy Geek

LitChick

KCH

Steve W

Soccer Mom

Crypto-fascist

TsukiRyoko

Forced into cell phone life

Maryn

I Tried

TsukiRyoko

Forced into cell phone life

picsbypat

New kid, be gentle!

Steve W

Thomas White

Diviner

Monkey

Is me.