Use of Brackets

Raphee · Apr 27, 2007

Some writers use brackets to express their thoughts. I am making up the following as an example:

She thought she had lost her pride ( perhaps innocence also) and she wanted to.

I have never been able to appreciate why this is done. Neither do I particularly like it when i read stuff in brackets. These appear like the authors thoughts to me.
What do you think?

DeadlyAccurate · Apr 27, 2007

They're called parenthetical asides. Here in the US they're called parentheses, not brackets. I write like that a lot in message board posts, but I deliberately avoid it in my books, because I have a bad habit of doing it a lot. It's distracting to me if it's done too often in novels.

Think of it as saying something out of the side of your mouth to an audience or having a sudden thought in the middle of your sentence you want to explain.

"We went to Maine (and the seafood place you recommended was really good, by the way) but we never got to see the Giant Maine Lizards."

Kristin Landon · Apr 27, 2007

Interesting. I write very parenthetically, but this makes me realize that in fiction, especially in dialog, I tend to set off the asides with em dashes, not parens.

And then spend a fair amount of time in draft 2 taking them out again, of course.

herdon · Apr 28, 2007

It's a style-thing. As with anything, if used too much it can get distracting, but if used right it flows well. I use them occassionally.

Kristin Landon said:
Interesting. I write very parenthetically, but this makes me realize that in fiction, especially in dialog, I tend to set off the asides with em dashes, not parens.

I tend to avoid certain things like parenthesis and semi-colons when writing dialogue. My theory is people don't speak with semi-colons, they'll either put the period in or just put a comma in and speak with a run-on sentence. 8)

Siddow · Apr 28, 2007

I, too, suffer this disease, especially when writing in first person. My characters split their sentences constantly with little asides, and the only solution I've found is a good edit.

Keep the best and toss the rest.

BlueBadger · Apr 28, 2007

So if Americans use parenthesis instead of brackets, how do you discuss "BEDMAS" in math class? Is it "PEDMAS?" O Brave New World... XD

Haha, I try to limit my bracket use in my writing, but it seems as if I've become more reliant on using dashes for interrupted/side thoughts. I'm not sure if that's better or worse.

Niapri · Apr 28, 2007

BlueBadger said:
So if Americans use parenthesis instead of brackets, how do you discuss "BEDMAS" in math class? Is it "PEDMAS?" O Brave New World... XD

Haha, I try to limit my bracket use in my writing, but it seems as if I've become more reliant on using dashes for interrupted/side thoughts. I'm not sure if that's better or worse.

...do you mean the order of operations in algebra/equations? Because if not, I don't know what you're talking about - never heard of either BEDMAS or PEDMAS. ^^;

I mostly do the parenthetical thing in my first-person stories, but I usually use dashes, not parentheses. Usually, it's not used as an aside to the reader, though - more often than not, I use it to mimic the patterns of the charcter's actual speech, as if s/he were actually telling the story out loud.

BlueBadger · Apr 28, 2007

Yeah, it's the order of operations.

We learned "BEDMAS" to help us remember the order. Brackets, Exponents, Division, Multiplication, Addition, Subtraction.

Something like that. Math makes me want to run away.

Will Lavender · Apr 28, 2007

Siddow said:
I, too, suffer this disease, especially when writing in first person. My characters split their sentences constantly with little asides, and the only solution I've found is a good edit.

Me too, and I'm not sure where I caught it.

I bet I have 50 pairs of parentheses in my novel and two hundred dashes.

Kristin Landon · Apr 28, 2007

It does help to break up the sentence structure and make things more interesting. I think it's like salt: a little adds flavor, but too much is definitely too much.

When I find them in my dialog, I generally take them out. I find that people rarely actually talk that way—even educated people in formal settings. My finished dialog is full of fragments and comma splices ("No, you don't mean that, it isn't true!") Fortunately, my copyeditor understood what I was trying to do. :tongue

Jamesaritchie · Apr 28, 2007

BlueBadger said:
Yeah, it's the order of operations. We learned "BEDMAS" to help us remember the order. Brackets, Exponents, Division, Multiplication, Addition, Subtraction.

Something like that. Math makes me want to run away.

In math, the order is brackets, exponents, etc. Same in writing. But parentheses are brackets. The common types of brackets are parentheses or round brackets ( ), box brackets or square brackets [ ], curly brackets or braces { }, and angle brackets < >, etc.

It's fine to call parentheses brackets because they are brackets, but it simply makes things clearer if you identify the type of brackets used for a given operation. In writing, just as in math, parentheses are normally the first bracket used for an operation, and the other types of brackets are used when the operation demands more steps in a prescribed order.

When two sets of brackets are used, one inside the other, whether math or writing, the inner pair will be parenthesis brackets, and the next outer pair will be square brackets.

DeadlyAccurate · Apr 28, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
But parentheses are brackets. The common types of brackets are parentheses or round brackets ( ), box brackets or square brackets [ ], curly brackets or braces { }, and angle brackets < >, etc.

Around here we always call them parentheses, brackets, curly brackets or braces, and the greater than and less than symbols. I've never heard anyone (American) refer to parentheses as brackets.

But you're correct, of course.

Bartholomew · Apr 28, 2007

Huh. I've always called them ( ).

Julie Worth · Apr 28, 2007

Searching through my WIP (a novel of 400 pages), I find exactly one pair of parentheses.

Jamesaritchie · Apr 28, 2007

DeadlyAccurate said:
Around here we always call them parentheses, brackets, curly brackets or braces, and the greater than and less than symbols. I've never heard anyone (American) refer to parentheses as brackets.

But you're correct, of course.

I suspect parenthesis brackets aren't usually called brackets for two reasons: 1. Because the word "parenthesis" distinguishes what we're talking about. It wouldn't make sense to refer to square brackets as simply "square," because the word square has another meaning. Same with "curly," "angle," etc. 2. Americans generally suck at math, and when we think "parentheses," we think writing.

Rob B · Apr 28, 2007

I just read Lukeman's latest book last week and he stated: "Brackets should never be use in creative writing." Conversely, he gave parentheses high marks when used in what would be construed to be correct syntax. I can't speak for Mr. Lukeman as being the quintessential grammar expert, but I do think he adequately distinguished that one is different from the other, even if he didn't define it so.

Raphee, you might have brackets confused with parentheses (I've done much worse, and will again); but, either way, parentheses more than seldom-employed--in contemporary fiction--can be considered by some to be patronizing the reader. I looked through 450 pages a few months ago and found but a couple of sets, yet eliminated both.

Parentheses, and I agree with Noah Lukeman on this (like he'd care if I didn't), seem to pull the writer into the tell/don't show syndrome, which is generally if not always considered a bad idea.

P.S. I checked your bio and I really like your selection of favorite authors.

Shady Lane · Apr 28, 2007

BlueBadger said:
So if Americans use parenthesis instead of brackets, how do you discuss "BEDMAS" in math class? Is it "PEDMAS?" O Brave New World... XD

Haha, I try to limit my bracket use in my writing, but it seems as if I've become more reliant on using dashes for interrupted/side thoughts. I'm not sure if that's better or worse.

We switch the division and the multiplication to make PEMDAS.

Or Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally.

Jamesaritchie · Apr 28, 2007

Rob B said:
I just read Lukeman's latest book last week and he stated: "Brackets should never be use in creative writing." Conversely, he gave parentheses high marks when used in what would be construed to be correct syntax. I can't speak for Mr. Lukeman as being the quintessential grammar expert, but I do think he adequately distinguished that one is different from the other, even if he didn't define it so.

Raphee, you might have brackets confused with parentheses (I've done much worse, and will again); but, either way, parentheses more than seldom-employed--in contemporary fiction--can be considered by some to be patronizing the reader. I looked through 450 pages a few months ago and found but a couple of sets, yet eliminated both.

Parentheses, and I agree with Noah Lukeman on this (like he'd care if I didn't), seem to pull the writer into the tell/don't show syndrome, which is generally if not always considered a bad idea.

P.S. I checked your bio and I really like your selection of favorite authors.

Well, yes, the two are different, whether it's writing or math. That's the whole point. If they were the same, one of them wouldn't exist.

Parentheses are still brackets, even in America, but some countries actually call them brackets. It's too many Americans who are confused.

And Lukeman should never say never. He says a number of things, in fact, that go against the average bestseller list each week.

Will Lavender · Apr 28, 2007

Julie Worth said:
Searching through my WIP (a novel of 400 pages), I find exactly one pair of parentheses.

Weak.

Anthony Ravenscroft · Apr 29, 2007

The "wrongness" of parenthetical asides is that they remind the reader that s/he is reading -- while certainly not the most disruptive of gimmicks, it's still distancing. I do use them sometimes in first-person narrative, because there's already that "storyteller" thing happening. Then again, when I edit a story or excerpt, I remove most italic emphasis, most exclamation points, & most parens, because those that remain will have far greater impact.

But, like m*therf*cker &c., once you use it three or four times it's a snooze-inducer, & by ten can only hope to be irritating.

Kristin Landon · Apr 29, 2007

Just to stir the terminology pot, I sometimes copyedit math, and in America, at least, we call { [ ( | etc. "fences." I don't know if mathematicians themselves do that, but their editors do.

I agree that in fiction, most parenthetical asides seem to be interjections from a narrator, which doesn't work for most modern ways of telling a story. They especially don't work in dialog: in real life, people tend to speak their thoughts from beginning to end, without digressions or interpolations within a sentence.

Raphee · Apr 30, 2007

Rob B said:
Raphee, you might have brackets confused with parentheses (I've done much worse, and will again); but, either way, parentheses more than seldom-employed--in contemporary fiction--can be considered by some to be patronizing the reader.

Hi Rob,
Actually I didn't have the parenth and brackets confused. But this thread has taught me a lot about how these are treated differently by different people.

I guess for me the brackets do seem like an author intrusion and that is why I never use them. For some reason italics never bother me. I guess its conditioned behaviour of sorts.

Thanks for liking the authors I prefer to read. Difficult to argue against confirmed greatness.

IrishScribbler · Apr 30, 2007

I use em dashes rather than parentheses--or brackets--in my writing, but find myself using parentheses in journal entries, blog entries, and personal letters and emails.

Use of Brackets

Raphee

In debt to AW

DeadlyAccurate

Absolutely Fazed

Kristin Landon

herdon

What's up?

Siddow

I'm super! Thanks for asking

BlueBadger

Knows notebooks can kill.

Niapri

BlueBadger

Knows notebooks can kill.

Will Lavender

Everything is what it seems.

Kristin Landon

Jamesaritchie

DeadlyAccurate

Absolutely Fazed

Bartholomew

Comic guy

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

Jamesaritchie

Rob B

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

Jamesaritchie

Will Lavender

Everything is what it seems.

Anthony Ravenscroft

Scribble, scribble, scribble

Kristin Landon

Raphee

In debt to AW

IrishScribbler