Impermanence

Birol · Apr 26, 2007

There's been a group of Buddhist monks on campus this week creating a mandala. It's made me quite contemplative. They've put incredible effort and focus into the task of creating this work of art. By the time it is completed, eight nor nine monks will have spent three days working on it. The result is an amazing work of art. When it's finished, they will destroy it.

We writers put an incredible amount of work into our art, crafting works that we hope are amazing to someone. Would you put the same effort into your work, the same detail, the same focus and concentration, if you knew, without a doubt, that it would be destroyed shortly after you finished?

MidnightMuse · Apr 26, 2007

Sassenach · Apr 26, 2007

No. And you're comparing, which the Buddha has said is a pitfall.

Birol · Apr 26, 2007

I have many such pitfalls.

MidnightMuse · Apr 26, 2007

Without pitfalls, how would we recognize peaks?

sunna · Apr 26, 2007

I probably would, but I'd b*#ch a lot more.

maestrowork · Apr 26, 2007

No.

It's not to say I don't admire what the Buddhist monks do -- but they have a different purpose in their process of creation. And I suspect that they view destruction as part of the process as well, so they can create again.

I also get enlightenment out of my creative process, but my personal philosophy is that I want to create, not destroy, and I don't need destruction to spawn more creation, and I want my creation to mean something to others, not just the creator. So I guess my philosophy may diverge from that of the monks... Personally, I would love for them to keep those works of art -- they're really amazing.

ETA: However, if I know it's all just a process, and the end result will be gone, I'd still put in effort and details IF the process is important to me.

One thing comes to mind is the Burning Man festival. A lot of the artwork -- some of them truly amazing -- is burned ceremonially at the end of the festival. I can really understand the spiritual aspect of such a process, even though I haven't really experienced it myself. I think there's something fascinating about that.

MidnightMuse · Apr 26, 2007

To elaborate on the original question: I've seen those sand paintings - they're amazing. I also frequently visit a town nearby where a woman paints in chalk on the sidewalk - beautiful images - I photograph them sometimes with her permission. They last a day at best, with tourists walking over them, and the rain.

All beauty is fleeting, but the memory is forever.

Meerkat · Apr 26, 2007

Think of how much more you enjoyed seeing this mandala, in knowing it was fleeting, and that that message was part of the art. I feel the same way about many of the highly entertaining messages on AW. Both cases pay such a loving compliment to their small temporary audience, like a play that will be performed only once. (can I get a light 'gong' sound in the background on that one?)

Will Lavender · Apr 26, 2007

Absolutely not.

If it's destroyed, who ever reads it?

Writing IS the writer's audience. Nothing else matters.

What's that Cheever quote? I can't write without a reader. It's precisely like a kiss--you can't do it alone.

Meerkat · Apr 26, 2007

Kiss is a great analogy! Temporary, limited audience...

Bartholomew · Apr 26, 2007

Sassenach said:
No. And you're comparing, which the Buddha has said is a pitfall.

When did he say that? The Buddha frequently taught using similes and parables.

Tiger · Apr 26, 2007

No. I believe that the written word, by its very nature, is a tool for posterity.

Birol · Apr 26, 2007

Yet all words aren't published and many of us sit down to write never knowing if our words will be published or not. Most of us know the odds that the first major work we create will end up in the drawer. Those words, the first million words, often end up destroyed or unread.

What's the difference between that and the mandala?

Jamesaritchie · Apr 26, 2007

effort

Birol said:
There's been a group of Buddhist monks on campus this week creating a mandala. It's made me quite contemplative. They've put incredible effort and focus into the task of creating this work of art. By the time it is completed, eight nor nine monks will have spent three days working on it. The result is an amazing work of art. When it's finished, they will destroy it.

We writers put an incredible amount of work into our art, crafting works that we hope are amazing to someone. Would you put the same effort into your work, the same detail, the same focus and concentration, if you knew, without a doubt, that it would be destroyed shortly after you finished?

I have put one heck of a lot more than three days of intense effort into writing I destroyed myself when it was finished. I've put a lot more than three months of intense effort into a piece of writing I destroyed myself right after completion.

Some Native American tribes do something very similar to the mandala, and while beautiful to watch, it isn't done for the purpose of preserving anything.

But whoever said it, comparisons seldom hold water. Each thing to its own purpose. The purpose or a mandala is one thing, and the purpose of writing is, or should be, another. The mandala is created with the intent and knowledge of forthcoming destruction. Writing is not.

Would I sit down and write something if I knew for a fact it was going to be destroyed. Of course not. How silly. I have better things to do with my time and energy. If I want to create something with the sure knowledge of its imminent destruction, I'll make myself a mandala, or a ham and cheese sandwich, not write a novel.

Rolling Thunder · Apr 26, 2007

Chef's do it too, Lori.

Tiger · Apr 26, 2007

Maybe we can't know for sure whether or not we'll be published... But, I'm pretty sure that most of us keep that hope as an ultimate goal

Journal writing comes to mind when I think about stuff not meant to be read by others. Still, most of us keep our journals, right?

I see writing to be as much communication as it is expression--each one having very specific meanings. That's just me.

Jamesaritchie · Apr 26, 2007

Birol said:
Yet all words aren't published and many of us sit down to write never knowing if our words will be published or not. Most of us know the odds that the first major work we create will end up in the drawer. Those words, the first million words, often end up destroyed or unread.

What's the difference between that and the mandala?

I see no similarity at all. There's always the possibility, the dream, that the words we write will be published, whatever the odds.

Do you think a Buddhist has any hope, and dream. any fantasy that the mandala will somehow be preserved, sell for a million dollars, and might someday be on display in the nearest museum?

.

Popeyesays · Apr 26, 2007

Birol said:
There's been a group of Buddhist monks on campus this week creating a mandala. It's made me quite contemplative. They've put incredible effort and focus into the task of creating this work of art. By the time it is completed, eight nor nine monks will have spent three days working on it. The result is an amazing work of art. When it's finished, they will destroy it.

We writers put an incredible amount of work into our art, crafting works that we hope are amazing to someone. Would you put the same effort into your work, the same detail, the same focus and concentration, if you knew, without a doubt, that it would be destroyed shortly after you finished?

I'm reminded of the line from The Lion in Winter when Elanore challenges King about his choice of sons to succeed him. He says: "Ask Praxiteles why he does not work in wax . . . because it does not last, Elanore."

Yup, I played Henry -- that was 1969 or so. Speaking of the ephemeral in art, nothing is as ephemeral as theater. Once the production closes it will never be again just that particular way. Heck, every night is a study in the ephemeral, since no two stage performances are ever the same.

Everything in civilization is ephemeral, nothing will last forever. Ask Menander, or try to read Aristotle's Comedia.

We are but moths circling the flame and so are all our works. Even Praxiteles, in the long run, sculpted in butter--he just thought it was marble.

Regards,
Scott

ChunkyC · Apr 26, 2007

I'd have to say yes. At best, even if published, I could only hope that my book would be in print for perhaps a year or two. Then it would be gone.

In my previous life as a musician, every night was like that. Every note I played was gone an instant after it was played, never to be heard again except on those rare occasions when we recorded ourselves.

So I can dig what the monks are doing. A transitory experience is also a unique one.

BardSkye · Apr 26, 2007

Yes. The process of creation, of making it the best it can possibly be is what fascinates me. Once it is as perfect as I can make it, I lose interest in it and move on to the next.

Shady Lane · Apr 26, 2007

This is sort of like that, "Your journey is your destination," thing.

No. My destination is my destination.

benbradley · Apr 26, 2007

ChunkyC said:
I'd have to say yes. At best, even if published, I could only hope that my book would be in print for perhaps a year or two. Then it would be gone.

I've heard through the bookselling and book collecting world that the majority of books don't get past their first printing. Such books do disappear from the big bookseller chains fast.
For impermanence, there a scene in, ISTR "The Bookman's Wake" where a talented typographer/small-run/collectible publisher makes a unique type font in the sand on a seashore, just to see it washed away by the tide, never to be seen again.

On the other hand, permanence, and the continued availablility of things thought not to last is becoming more the norm. Almost every book ever published has been available if you were willing to pay enough and wait long enough (through the used/out-of-print/collectible book trade). Now, thanks to the Internet, you can easily get almost any book, often for less than ten dollars and within less than a week. And for a book not listed online, there are ways to contact hundreds of booksellers who will look through their not-yet-listed-online stock for it.

Even such a transitive thing as text messaging can change the balance of power and become a part of history if the transcripts are discovered and they're of hot-n-heavy texting between a male teen and a male congressional representative.

And to put the ultimate "balance" to this thread, here's a site concerned with, if not quite permanence, longevity. A main goal is to make a clock that will run and be accurate through the year 10,000:
http://longnow.org

When it's finished, they will destroy it.

Yet ironically it will live on, shown and documented in the link you gave, and it's no doubt already saved at:
http://archive.org

TsukiRyoko · Apr 26, 2007

Ohhhh, this is an amazing question....

The first answer in my head was, "No! Screw it!" but now that I've thought about it, I'd have to say yes. Most of my work goes unread, and I store it for later "use" (reading between the lines, this means 'I put it away and will probably never look at it again, let alone let anyone else see it"). I put all my heart and soul into my writing, knowing that it will probably end up collecting dust. I only keep it around because of some strange fabricated sentimentality, but putting it away is somewhat the same as destroying it.

With this mindset, I'd have to say yes, I would continue to work with everything I've got.

lfraser · Apr 26, 2007

Would I? Yes -- because I'm almost certain that I will finish my WIP, edit it, and then tuck it away forever.

That's almost like asking whether you would have a child if you knew he or she would only live 15 years.

Impermanence

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Midnight Reading

5 W's & an H

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Fear the Death Ray

Midnight Reading

Claims the loan was a gift

Everything is what it seems.

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Comic guy

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Now departed. Rest in peace, Scott, from all of us

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my name is hannah

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