Possible Alternate Title

infinitus_kaze · Apr 23, 2007

In a previous discussion I spoke about one of my new projects, a novel entitled Bel Canto that took place in a role-playing game style world. In that discussion, people discouraged me from using the title Bel Canto because it was also a title of a bestselling novel. Thus, a new question arrives. I don't want to take the name Bel Canto out of my title because it is a very important part of the plot of the story (being the name of the world the story takes place in) and I was wondering how to deal with this. Would a publisher allow me to keep the title Bel Canto if I added to the title? For example: Bel Canto: Enter the WASP Hunter or Bel Canto: Jim's Adventures?

Siddow · Apr 23, 2007

You are aware of the meaning and connotation of the term WASP, right?

Soccer Mom · Apr 23, 2007

The publisher usually changes your title anyway. I wouldn't stress overly about it.

And Bel Canto is a very well known book. I realize that you love it, but it makes your work sound derivative.

janetbellinger · Apr 23, 2007

If it were me, I would change the name of the novel, even the name of Bel Canto in the novel. My ex-PA novel ended up having the same name as another non-fiction book, but I didn't know that when I titled mine. The two books came out almost simultaneously and the other book became famous. Mine did not. I would want my title to be unique to my novel.

aadams73 · Apr 23, 2007

*shrug* Chances are better than even that the publisher will change it anyway.

herdon · Apr 23, 2007

If chances are the publisher would change it that is a strong indication that you should change it now. The title is one of the first things they read about your book -- you definately do not want a title that will leave them with a negative thought.

As said, "Bel Canto: Enter the WASP Hunter" is not a good title. Bel Canto is the name of a famous book, and WASP means white angelo saxon protestant to most people who read it.

I'm not sure why you are stuck on Bel Canto just because it is the name of the world. Most books don't have the name of the world in the title.

My suggestion would be to think of something unique about your story and try to turn it into a title and, barring that, think of something personal about your story and turn it into a title.

Toothpaste · Apr 23, 2007

I read your post on some of your chapter names. Why not something with Goddess in it? It seems really appropriate from what I know about your book.

(interesting note: Bella Canto is also the form of the singing training I study)

Sage · Apr 23, 2007

Have to agree w/ Havlen. You want to put your best work forward for querying. You wouldn't say, "Stop worrying about the first five pages, because the publisher will have you change them if they don't like it." They start with your title, go to your short description of the novel, then (maybe) read pages. If they're going in with preconceived notions about your novel based on the title or the description, you'll either lose them before you start (if the impression you give them is bad) or lose them when you give them something different.

With the suggested titles, your novel does come across like it's a sequel or based on the other novel, so, if it were me, I'd change the title completely. But it's your novel, so it's up to you.

Another suggestion to add to the ones at the end of Havlen's post is to see if there's a short phrase you can pull from a line (of dialog or narrative) that works nicely as a title & is representative of the plot or a theme in the novel.

infinitus_kaze · Apr 23, 2007

Siddow said:
You are aware of the meaning and connotation of the term WASP, right?

Actually, I wasn't aware of it. I created the term WASP as an acronym for Weapon Armor Sentinel Protection. I had no idea that it already had an acronym for White Anglo-Saxton Protestant. WASPs are the magical items that the characters use to fight with. They can be rings, earrings, bracelets, pendants, anklets, or other small accessories.

I don't think it should matter though because I clearly state what a WASP is in my novel, leaving no doubt that I'm not refering to White Anglo-Saxton Protestants. Also, there are many acronyms out there that mean multiple things like POD for instance.

Toothpaste said:
(interesting note: Bella Canto is also the form of the singing training I study)

The term is actually Bel Canto and not Bella Canto. That is actually why I chose the title Bel Canto for my book. The world I'm writing this story in has significance to the fact that I'm also a vocal music major. The world's name means "beautiful singing" and all of the countries and cities in the book have names related to music like lied, cantare, canzone, chantez, and requiem.

To tell you the truth, I had never heard of the bestselling novel Bel Canto until others told me on this forum. That's my greatest weakness as an author and as a human being; my poor memory for names, I mean. I can't remember names to save my life; names of people, books, songs, cities, streets, etc. If it has a name, I'm sure to forget it no matter how hard I try to remember it.

Perhaps I could keep the world's name as the title, but change the name of the world to another musical term other than Bel Canto.

chartreuse · Apr 23, 2007

There was also a band called Bel Canto. They weren't super well-known; just mentioning it as an FYI.

Elektra · Apr 23, 2007

infinitus_kaze said:
I don't think it should matter though because I clearly state what a WASP is in my novel, leaving no doubt that I'm not refering to White Anglo-Saxton Protestants. Also, there are many acronyms out there that mean multiple things like POD for instance.
.

Even if you weren't aware of it, pretty much everyone reading your book will be. They'll think you were trying to make some sort of joke, or thinly veiled political comment.

Toothpaste · Apr 23, 2007

I think that's a good idea to choose a different musical name (I figured I got the name of my singing thing wrong, I just do it, don't spell it

). And if you are flexible with it it makes sense.

Hey wanna hear a joke?

So two bees meet up and one starts complaining to the other about how hungry he is. The other bee says, "Dude, I have just the thing for you. Over there they are having a bar mitzvah and there is tons of food and all these flowers and things, you'll love it."

The other bee thanks him and buzzes off. A few hours later the bees meet up again. "So," asks the first bee, "how did it go?"

"Oh it was awesome! All that food! The dessert was to die for, and the flowers were just divine!"

"I'm so glad you had a good time," replies his friend. "But can I ask you, what are you wearing on your head?"

"Oh this, this is a yarmulkah [men wear these in synagogue to cover their heads]."

"Yes I know, but why are you wearing a yarmulkah?" asks the other bee.

"Well I didn't want them to think I was a WASP!"

Ba dum bum! Thank you thank you, I'll be here all week. Try the veal!

Sage · Apr 23, 2007

Elektra said:
Even if you weren't aware of it, pretty much everyone reading your book will be. They'll think you were trying to make some sort of joke, or thinly veiled political comment.

<shrugs> I don't think that's necessarily the case. I mean, the way the title is here, that could certainly be true of people only reading the title, but I don't think that anyone reading in the novel that "WASPs" are "Weapon Armor Sentinel Protection" are going to confuse magical jewelry with a certain group of people.

infinitus_kaze · Apr 23, 2007

Elektra said:
Even if you weren't aware of it, pretty much everyone reading your book will be. They'll think you were trying to make some sort of joke, or thinly veiled political comment.

I don't believe that's true at all. I've told about 200 people about the concept of a WASP in my book and not a single one of them even mentioned the anglo-saxton thing. They all thought it was an interesting fantasy concept. I think older generations may see it as insulting, but I am writing it for a younger adult audience and many of them don't give a care about politics or political correctness. I bet if you asked 100 people from my target audience what a WASP meant in political terms, about 5-10 of them might know the answer and even then they wouldn't care about it because the times in which racial, religious, and sexist terms abounded is gradually coming to an end with each generation of younger people who care less and less about race, religion, gender, age, or any of the other barriers that still haunt elder generations.

Toothpaste · Apr 23, 2007

Though they may wonder why he chose that particular acronym, they may think it was still done on purpose. Not necessarily, but people do that sort of thing all the time. Choose a word that has a meaning to us, and then use it in the knowledge that others may think it means that original meaning. Besides the first the an agent or publisher is going to see is the title. They ain't gonna have read the book yet. So the first impression has been made. That's why infinitus's own suggestion of just changing the title, is a good'un in my opinion.

ETA - WASP is still a very prevalent term. Not saying that people wouldn't appreciate it as you mean it. But it isn't outdated or anything. Believe me. This means nothing in terms of your story (I really think once you explain it, it should be fine), but I just wanted to clarify that lots of people really do know what this means.

veinglory · Apr 23, 2007

I suggest you make a list of totally different names rather than clinging to the one you have.

Also WASP has the meaning described and is likely to be a big problem. How many people over 30 did you ask? (The odds are your agent, acquiring editor etc will be over 30)

It would be like having the acronym be a rude word or something like USSR. The first meaning people will get is the one they already know, every time they see it.

If you aren't going to change these things then that is your prerogative but look at the absolute weight of opinion here and give it serious thought.

Elektra · Apr 23, 2007

infinitus_kaze said:
I bet if you asked 100 people from my target audience what a WASP meant in political terms, about 5-10 of them might know the answer and even then they wouldn't care about it because the times in which racial, religious, and sexist terms abounded is gradually coming to an end with each generation of younger people who care less and less about race, religion, gender, age, or any of the other barriers that still haunt elder generations.

I'm 20--asking friends of the same age, all knew what WASP stands for. Unless you're shooting for a generation younger than us, be aware that the vast majority of your readers will know what it means.

Sage · Apr 23, 2007

If it was introduced as "WASPs" as it was done in this thread, with no context whatsoever as to what they are, I could see that assumption being made that he was referring to White Anglo-Saxon Protestants. But if it's introduced as a character picks up a, say, ring & mentions that it's a weapon, then within context that it's a "Weapon Armor Sentinel Protection," then a "W.A.S.P.," I don't think the audience is going to go, "Oh, is this a political statement?" It's probable that some readers might read the word "WASP" & picture a person, just as some readers might picture an insect (which is what I always picture). But unless there's some other reason to connect the items to the group of people, I don't think there's any reason to worry about this. JMHO.

Shady Lane · Apr 23, 2007

Elektra said:
I'm 20--asking friends of the same age, all knew what WASP stands for. Unless you're shooting for a generation younger than us, be aware that the vast majority of your readers will know what it means.

I'm sixteen and my friends and I DEFINITELY know. Unless you want younger than me...

I really think you should take everyone's advice and hunt for a totally new title...it's always good to have a short one, as well.

Shady Lane · Apr 23, 2007

Sage said:
If it was introduced as "WASPs" as it was done in this thread, with no context whatsoever as to what they are, I could see that assumption being made that he was referring to White Anglo-Saxon Protestants. But if it's introduced as a character picks up a, say, ring & mentions that it's a weapon, then within context that it's a "Weapon Armor Sentinel Protection," then a "W.A.S.P.," I don't think the audience is going to go, "Oh, is this a political statement?" It's probable that some readers might read the word "WASP" & picture a person, just as some readers might picture an insect (which is what I always picture). But unless there's some other reason to connect the items to the group of people, I don't think there's any reason to worry about this. JMHO.

Yes, but to put it in the title means to put it completely out of context. It's fine to have it inside the book, but the title has to stand without explanation.

Sage · Apr 23, 2007

Shady Lane said:
Yes, but to put it in the title means to put it completely out of context. It's fine to have it inside the book, but the title has to stand without explanation.

I agree about the title (I thought I said so), & maybe I'm misreading the posts, but it sounds to me like people are saying to completely change the name of the items because it might be seen as a political statement.

Shady Lane · Apr 23, 2007

Sage said:
I agree about the title (I thought I said so), & maybe I'm misreading the posts, but it sounds to me like people are saying to completely change the name of the items because it might be seen as a political statement.

You probably did say so. I'm developing a selective reading disorder. My mistake

Sage · Apr 23, 2007

Shady Lane said:
You probably did say so. I'm developing a selective reading disorder. My mistake

Can't really blame you when I've suffered from the disorder in the past (& prolly the present too)

Elektra · Apr 23, 2007

Sage said:
I agree about the title (I thought I said so), & maybe I'm misreading the posts, but it sounds to me like people are saying to completely change the name of the items because it might be seen as a political statement.

It was my mistake. I thought the WASPs in the novel were a group of people. Though I would still vote to change it (not that my opinion matters in this situation), just because a lot of unintentional humor, or phrasings that would take the reader out of the story, have probably arisen naturally.

infinitus_kaze · Apr 23, 2007

My target age range is 15-25 and all of the people I've talked with were in that age range. It may be possible that they knew about what a WASP was, but they didn't address the issue. I come from Wyoming, which isn't a very politically active state and a majority of people my age in this state don't care about politics at all because we are rather removed from the rest of the country. At least, that is what I've found from the college students I've met. There are a few who talk about politics, but most of them don't care in the least. I've met people from New York, Georgia, California, and other distance states that had never heard of Wyoming before and actually admitted that they thought it was a foreign country.

I won't change the acronym for WASP because I clearly state what a WASP is in the book. As for the title, I never actually considered Enter the WASP Hunter as a possible title because I think it is stupid. I was just entering a few random titles to show as examples of possible changes that I could make while still keeping Bel Canto in the title. However, since many people seem to think I should completely remove Bel Canto in any context from the title I will have to find some alternative; either by changing the name of my world or by keeping the name of my world the same but giving some other form of title.

This is the real problem I'm faced with for the title. I was considering making a sequel to this novel in the future if this one sold well enough. I had hoped that this book could be Bel Canto and then the sequel could be Bel Canto 2: *something*. Now I've got to find a different title that will work for this book and its sequel.

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