How to curse/swear?

[Steve W]

Hi,

I know some Christians can swear just as well as anyone when they want to, but, on the whole, what kind of expressions do they use to avoid taking the name of God or Jesus in vain (while avoiding traditional four-letter words, etc)? Are some expressions more of a curse than others?

Thanks for your time.
Cheers,
Steve

[Medievalist]

There are the "substitutes, " which are largely instances of linguistic masking; geeze for Jesus, for instance. But many Christians avoid them for that very reason; you might also see things like darn and drat avoided as well. I've heard things like "goodness," and my mother, my very Southern mother, still says "oh my stars and garters," where other (and far younger) folk might resort to something more, ah, pungent.

[misslissy]

I go to a private Christian school and I hear all sorts of swear word varieties (and a lot of people still say Oh my Goodness) - if your story is set in modern times though I should let you know that the older your MC's are, the more likely they are to be vigilant about not swearing because in high school, a lot of people don't really care and they'll swear anyways - actually I used to not swear and got made fun of for it.

However, when a teacher's around, I have heard things like (and these are the more popular ones):
Fudge Nuggets
Flippin'
Holy Shitoki Mushrooms

I'll let you know if I think of any more. And I realize now that that top part was one big run on.

[Roger J Carlson]

There is very much a generational influence here.

My mother will say "Oh my goodness" and that's about it. I've never heard her say anything stronger than that. I can clearly remember my sister being punished for saying "heck" because it was just a subsitute for "hell".

In my childhood, to "suck up" literally meant oral sex performed on a man, and "brown-nosing" meant you were kissing someones posterior so much your nose got...well, never mind.

But today, these words now are very mild terms for sycophancy, and it is not uncommon to hear young Christians today talking about how homework sucks. Or to call someone a brown-noser.

So it is important to know the context. Is the Christian in question young or old? Is he a new Christian or a lifelong Christian. Is she under a great deal of stress? Who is the audience? (That is the audience hearing the Christian cursing. We all alter our speech for different audiences.)

[Dancre]

Hi,

I know some Christians can swear just as well as anyone when they want to, but, on the whole, what kind of expressions do they use to avoid taking the name of God or Jesus in vain (while avoiding traditional four-letter words, etc)? Are some expressions more of a curse than others?

Thanks for your time.
Cheers,
Steve

How about, "Oh, this is just pissing me off to no end!!" That's what I usually say. or GRRRR!!! sometimes I just sigh and groan. I don't like to curse so I just sigh. or in writing, I just say, He cursed. But instead of throwing out a curse word, could I suggest you use body action and other words to convey anger? I think that works better than any curse word.

kim

[AzBobby]

Choices of cuss words can really help define a character. Just a simple set of substitutes that are common to the culture might not be enough to make a person sound real.

I've known the occasional new Christian, perhaps converted as a 12-stepper, who has too much perspective on the world and other things to worry about bothering to alter his language superficially, who might cuss like a sailor in between prayers because that's how he's always spoken.

Then there's the hypocritical straight laced Christian who uses clean language to sound superior, but blows up with foul language around those he doesn't respect or doesn't feel have anything to offer him.

My personal favorite is the person who purposely uses awkward or ultra-nerdy substitutes for the sake of humor. If you train yourself to say "oh, Pillsbury" in the face of the worst luck, it's difficult to feel a lot of anger build up beyond its initial expression.

Some other Christians, still, see no sin in any vulgarity whatsoever aside from using the Lord's name in vain.

The thing I'd puzzle over more is how to represent rough language if I were trying to sell to a Christian book store publisher, seeing as no contemporary situation could be represented realistically without it -- assuming you use a typical cross-section of our society as characters. Sometimes it works to write around it, simply telling the reader that a character let loose some foul language at a given point without having to include the quoted words. You pretty much have to do that with children's books anyway. An old fashioned way around it is to use dashes to provide "censored" quotes of cussing -- you see this now and then in older books, but I don't know if it's ever done now. Then there's the cartoon version using the top row of the keyboard -- @!#*!!

I'm personally not comfortable with Christian and "for children" being synonymous in so many contexts. My mom, for example, can't stand a movie or TV show unless it's strictly for children, and rarely then. Being so easily offended can really distract you from the positive values of a lot of great art, writing and cinema.

[ned]

Few of the above replies addressed the question asked: How does a character swear or curse if an author is writing Christian fiction?

This is my first post on this site, and I'll add an intro tomorrow. Pardon me for butting in, but this is a question I've had to deal with frequently in my writing. I write for a Christian audience, but my stories are realistic. They take place around 1800. Everyone swore in those days. Even Christians.

Our trouble today is that many of our target readers will object to foul language in our novels. What's the answer?

I prefer realism. My stories deal with harsh events that were taking place all over the world, from the revolution in France to the horrors of the slave trade. I can't tiptoe around the reader and feel I've written a true historical novel. Evil exists. So does swearing.

My characters do curse and swear, but I usually include it in the dialog attribution, by writing something like

"They killed your wife."
"What?" He swore. "I don't believe it."

That's not actual dialog I've used, but you can see how it can be fit into place without the reader really taking note that you didn't use a naughty word. As for the actual words, the reader will have no trouble filling in the blank.

Once in a while, I do have a character use the actual words. Once, maybe twice, in a 300 page novel. It has to be believable when I do it, and appropriate. A character will say, "By God," or something equally curse-ish, but only when circumstances are such that even the reader will be wanting the character to swear.

Sorry, but I can't use corny, sweet replacements. There are no Melanie Wilkes-types prancing around saying "Stars Above!" In most fiction, outside GWTW, it would be nauseating.

[Plot Device]

My Christian characters almost never curse. My non-Christian characters can and do (in fact you can count on it).

My Christian characters would probably only ever curse in extreme duress, or in a "back-sliden" state, and probably will show immediate remorse and embaressment after the fact.

I'd have to have something very specific in mind if I crafted a Christian character who cursed regularly.

[III]

Watch Napoleon Dynamite - it's full of flippin' sweet Mormon curse substitutes.

But on the subject of addressing cursing while trying to write relevant Christian Fiction - that's pretty tricky. I've used phrases like "he cursed under his breath" or "he said a very bad word" instead of using a form of the curse word itself.

[Plot Device]

Watch Napoleon Dynamite - it's full of flippin' sweet Mormon curse substitutes.

But on the subject of addressing cursing while trying to write relevant Christian Fiction - that's pretty tricky. I've used phrases like "he cursed under his breath" or "he said a very bad word" instead of using a form of the curse word itself.

Easy to do in a novel. Not so easy in a film.

[III]

Easy to do in a novel. Not so easy in a film.

You could do like they did in that episode of Seinfeld where the characters trailed off and mubled their curses, and the other character would say "what was that?" :D

[Plot Device]

You could do like they did in that episode of Seinfeld where the characters trailed off and mubled their curses, and the other character would say "what was that?" :D

Great for comedy. Not for drama.

[ned]

I forgot to mention another way. In certain genres, depending on the period of history, characters can swear by things other than Christian dieties. For example, in a Regency romance, the high of neoclassical education and architecture, any male character can say "by Jove" and get away with it. All educated men learned their Greek and Latin. I expect the majority of swearing among the educated class would have been in one of those languages.

It's a solution for some, anyway.

[ned]

Then there's the Hippocratic oath, "I swear by Apollo..."

[Judg]

I forgot to mention another way. In certain genres, depending on the period of history, characters can swear by things other than Christian dieties. For example, in a Regency romance, the high of neoclassical education and architecture, any male character can say "by Jove" and get away with it. All educated men learned their Greek and Latin. I expect the majority of swearing among the educated class would have been in one of those languages.

It's a solution for some, anyway.
You get a lot of "by Jove's" in the Narnia books. They betrayed me once. I was reading in the back seat of the car - strictly forbidden - but my parents were too busy yacking to notice. When I finally looked up I saw that we had arrived and said, foolishly, "By Jove! We're in Ottawa." The jig was up.

[AzBobby]

I keep seeing examples of cursing or substitute cursing outside the mainstream here... Napoleon Dynamite was wonderful, and even realistic on certain levels (in small-town Mormon speech patterns perhaps), but set squarely in Abnormal USA for comedy effect. Same goes for fantasy or historical yarns full of antiquated expressions like "zounds" with or without recognition of the religious etymology. The nerdy-on-purpose euphemisms only work for comedy -- even the quaint phrases in GWTW were usually played for laughs. Ironically, euphemisms often work better in drama than in print, when the sincerity of the actor can make it sound natural (in my head I can hear Dr. McCoy saying "what the devil--" in three dozen old Star Trek episodes and sounding as high strung as anyone exploding with cuss words that were not allowed on TV at the time).

...But I'm thinking the real challenge here is not to provide substitutes for blue language in fantasy and oddball situations, but in mainstream fiction. And I'm stumped there, aside from "telling" the cussing instead of "showing" it. That trick works, but only to a limited extent. I'm recalling how phony The Cross and the Switchblade was, despite the fact that it was presented as nonfiction, since it was a Christian book taking place in the urban jungle. At some point you just can't represent the speech patterns of mainstream society without magnifying the superficial divorce between "Christian" fiction and fiction that strives instead to witness honestly to that mainstream.

If you manage to write the exception to the rule, more power to you. I sure don't know how.

[YoshimiKazu]

Hi,

I know some Christians can swear just as well as anyone when they want to, but, on the whole, what kind of expressions do they use to avoid taking the name of God or Jesus in vain (while avoiding traditional four-letter words, etc)? Are some expressions more of a curse than others?

Thanks for your time.
Cheers,
Steve

Ok, the cursing thing pretty much cannot be gotten around, outside of fantasy, where you can claim it's considered rude and obnoxious, and people don't do it outside of closed doors. But the Lord's name in vain thing is one thing that you can leave out, and it will not damage your book. Yes, people use it. But that doesn't mean YOU must use it (in your work). In fact, a good Christian with good sense can see pretty plainly that doing so would be sinful in itself, whereas saying 's%^t' is not. It's not exactly dignified, and it's better not to... but it's not in itself a sin. (Though the f-word is probably debatable in that sense.) But to write the Lord's name in vain, is a direct breech of the commandments, which is pretty serious stuff. Writing about people who sin is one thing. Writing something that is a sin in itself to write (erotica for example) or read is another.

I've tossed out hundreds (if not a couple thousand) dollars worth of movies, music, books and comics because of things that I, as a Christian, could not subject myself to without being a hypocrite to my religion. If I see that word in a book, or it's heard in a movie... chances are the book or movie goes in the garbage, I don't tell my friends about it, and in fact, I discourage my friends in every way possible from buying them. Not because I'm an obnoxious jerk, but because I am serious about my faith, and would rather my friends not sin either, because I genuinely care about them and their eternal fate, even if some of them don't.

If the Christians give on morals to the point other Christians can't read their work... we've got a serious problem. For my part, I will write just about anything that is not 1) a sin in itself for me to be writing about or 2) which is a sin for others to be reading. So in my work, there is swearing occasionally when the character requires it. But the Lord's name in vain is totally out. Just like there's violence, but it's not perversely glorified or unnecessary. There's sin, but not in such a way it would make other people want to go out and do likewise.

Christians, some advice... 1) use your common sense and some good (tasteful) judgement, and 2) take a cue from the bible. The bible is FULL of men (and women) sinning. But not written in such a way as to cause the reader to sin, or glorify it. The Lord taught in parables. But safe ones.

[III]

Writing something that is a sin in itself to write (erotica for example) or read is another.


That's actually something I'm wresting with in my current WIP. The two protagonists are in their early twenties and in love - they're both Christians and they kiss passionately, but they're not able to be married yet. I've worked hard to avoid any lewd descriptions, but it's like walking a tightrope, trying to keep the writing sincere to the passion and burning the characters are experiencing.

I'm also not sure how to deal with writing about intimacy between married couples. I guess the baseline is "nothing gratuitous", but great sex between a married couple is a beautiful thing and we should be encouraged by it, not ashamed of it. We should be encouraging our married readers that great sex is a wonderful thing, not a shameful thing that can't even be written about. But on the other hand, I agree that it shouldn't turn into graphic erotica. Some would point to the Song of Solomon as a "happy medium" but what would be a modern version of that?

Personally, I hesitate to use the Bible as a baseline for what's "gratuitous" (at least the Old Testament ;)). There's no shortage of rape, prostitution, torture, and murder there. Try reading the story of Judah's daughter-in-law with your mom - there's a thought to make you shudder!

I dunno. What do you guys think? I really appreciate this group and your insights.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

Hi,

I know some Christians can swear just as well as anyone when they want to, but, on the whole, what kind of expressions do they use to avoid taking the name of God or Jesus in vain (while avoiding traditional four-letter words, etc)? Are some expressions more of a curse than others?

Thanks for your time.
Cheers,
Steve


Honestly speaking, the Bible does not command us not to use the standard four-letter-words when cursing. It only commands us not to take G-d's Name in vain. I understand that a lot of people are offended by the four-letter-words, and in many cases I think they're right in being offended because of the meanings of those words.

But to keep from saying G-d's Name in vain I myself have substituted 'Blessed' in the place of 'Damned' after the word 'G-d' in my ordinary speech, as a way of finishing the curse without actually using the word I most associated with taking His Name in vain.

However, I have recently found out that the commandment is against all misuse of the Name of G-d. This, believe-it-or-not, is one reason I use the word 'G-d' instead of the usual spelling. It's a common practice among some people, in order that they not curse His Name or otherwise misuse it.

But how does a person curse without using His Name in vain? Well, I try not to curse at all, although sometimes things slip out of my mouth and I end up catching myself mid-phrase. In such a case, I will either stop myself entirely from completing the curse these days, or I will try to quickly modify it so it is not so bad.

A good example of this might be catching myself using the real F-word and then making the last letters of that word 'dge' or something to that effect. If I find myself saying 'G-d' and I haven't gotten to the last letter yet, I might change 'G-d' to 'Golly' or some less offensive way of saying what I'm trying to say.

But in American society cursing seems so ingrained that I used to think not cursing was un-realistic. I don't think this any more; what I think now is if a character has a problem with his or her language, and they don't want to really curse the normal way, the writer has many options, not the least of which is actually cursing and then wishing they hadn't done so afterward. I know I myself go through this very scenario quite often, partially because when I was a child I said I would never learn to cuss.

Another option would be for them to catch themselves mid-phrase or just before they utter the word, and quickly try to find a substitute that is not as offensive as the real thing. This could provide some comic relief to the story while at the same time being quite serious to the writer or the character.

[YoshimiKazu]

I'm also not sure how to deal with writing about intimacy between married couples. I guess the baseline is "nothing gratuitous", but great sex between a married couple is a beautiful thing and we should be encouraged by it, not ashamed of it. We should be encouraging our married readers that great sex is a wonderful thing, not a shameful thing that can't even be written about. But on the other hand, I agree that it shouldn't turn into graphic erotica. Some would point to the Song of Solomon as a "happy medium" but what would be a modern version of that?

Personally, I hesitate to use the Bible as a baseline for what's "gratuitous" (at least the Old Testament ;)). There's no shortage of rape, prostitution, torture, and murder there. Try reading the story of Judah's daughter-in-law with your mom - there's a thought to make you shudder!

I dunno. What do you guys think? I really appreciate this group and your insights.

But the Bible doesn't describe what goes on play by play like a Hollywood movie. In fact, I seem to recall passages that summed up intercourse in about one line. It wasn't about getting the reader all lusty and turned on.

I compare this scenario with the act of people using the bathroom. God made us that way, and therefore we can gather that using the bathroom is a good, wholesome and proper thing to do. We ought all of us to do so. But nobody needs to be reading about it. It has happened that I have mentioned characters going INTO the bathroom... but I didn't need to tell the reader play by play what they did there, and how they did it. Some things, however good and wholesome they are in themselves, and though they were invented by and approved (in some cases) of by God, are things that are meant to be private, not on public display.

We should not have graphic intercourse in books for the same reason we do not allow people to make love in public parks or in shopping malls. Some things are decent in private, but not in public. In the bathtub one has nothing on. But one wears clothes in public for a reason. Our bodies are not sinful, but nudism is. Apparently God meant for certain things to be done in secret, however approved of and wholesome they are to Him. There's a reason for this which reason itself will quickly tell us. Some thoughts are sinful. There is little difference between seeing something in person, and imagining it. Christ tells us if a man fantasizes about committing adultery in his heart, he is guilty of the sin as if he'd done it physically. Just as it would be sinful to sit and watch someone in their room having intercourse, it would be sinful for any reader to sit and imagine it.

This stuff should be pretty common-sense stuff to everybody here. But of course the allure of writing and reading and thinking about something like intercourse is totally different from talking about someone going to the bathroom... which is where the "confusion" comes from. Nobody wants so badly to write about people going to the bathroom, because it doesn't turn normal people on the way thinking (whether reading or writing) intercourse would. This is a sinful temptation that every writer more or less is going to face. Common sense tells us that if we wouldn't watch it in person, we shouldn't 'watch' it in a book or on television. It's just as sinful in our heads as it is in person. (Says Christ in the Bible speaking of the adulterous thoughts.)

I'll leave you with this. I'm not writing anything whitewashed myself. I'm writing modern, non-christian Characters in a couple stories. In one of them, the main character's mother is a prostitute. Christian taste in writing means, a reader who is jaded enough to know about that sort of thing, and who is able minded enough to put two and two together, can gather by this and that fact or indication that this guys mother is, in fact, a prostitute. We never see it on page. And if you're not on the ball, you will probably assume she is simply seeing this other character. But the information is in there, and it's obvious enough that people who are reasonably paying attention, should realize this fact before the end of the story. But we don't need to see this woman doing what she does, play by play in the bedroom. The point is gotten across in such a way that it does not lead the reader into sin. We can know what this woman does, without going all through it on page. It's clear, if you catch the cue, stop and give it any thought, and know what that profession is. But if you're underage, and don't know, you can easily pass over it and keep your innocence. It does not harm the story at all.

I also am dealing with a few extraordinarily perverse characters, whose actions I have to watch especially. They are sick in the head, and their lives are sick, and their actions are in some cases quite so. And if I just threw the information about what they do out there in the raw, I don't doubt I'd end up with an extraordinarily offensive, tasteless and sinful novel. I'm dealing with very sinful characters. Sometimes, their sick actions are relevant to the characters or story. But the way in which I tell about those actions or lives will make all the difference in the world as to whether or not it's sinful and tasteless, or whether the reader can get the idea, be effected by the information, and NOT have to sin to do so.

The reader will know this woman is a prostitute if they know what a prostitute is. The effect of that information is not lost upon the reader because I found other (in fact better and more effective) ways of getting the point across, than to show what she does. It's all a matter of what is said... and in some cases, what is NOT said. But some things, even pleasing and made by God, were meant to be private, and are sinful otherwise. Even if we're reading about them. (Let alone to be writing about them.)

We have a responsibility to make sure that sane, rational, normal people reading our books are not led into sin by them. We will have to answer for that responsibility to the One Who gave us the gift of writing, and expected us to use it responsibly and not sinfully to corrupt others or lead others into sin. The writer who writes play by play how to effectively murder someone and basically get away with it, may think they aren't responsible for what they wrote and may not care. But if someone goes and kills someone else because of information they got in that book, who wouldn't have known how or felt confident enough to do so otherwise... that writer is at least partly responsible for his or her tasteless and sinfully irresponsible writing.

[Steve W]

Hi,

There're some great answers here, guys. Thanks so much. Maybe if I give you a little more information we can really nail this subject.

While I'm aiming at the mainstream market, not the Christian market, because of my book's themes, it will appeal to Christians, so I'm wary of losing such a big demographic purely because of my choice of vocabulary.
It's set in modern day NY.
While some of the characters are Christian, none are practicing, so they have no qualms about what language they use.
There is a modicum of foul language when the character/plot calls for it, but really very little.
Unfortunately, my main problem is the one that seems to be the greatest issue people have with cursing -- taking the Lord's name in vain.
The Lord's name is regularly taken in vain in the dialogue and the internal monologue of the main POV character.Now, the problem I have is that it's perfectly natural for my POV character to think/talk like this. Sometimes she does use substitute words, but most of the time it's just out and out taking-in-vain stuff. As I said, I don't want to lose an audience millions strong just for the sake of one little expression, but at the same time, I don't want to fill my character's head/mouth with expressions she'd never dream of using coming from her background.

So, that's where I'm at and why I'm stuck on this issue. I really don't know if it's possible for my character to be written in a way that Christians will accept without her transforming into something I don't like. Hence my question -- what can she say/think instead of G**damn/ Oh, G** no!/ What the H*** happened, etc.

I need to stay faithful to my characters and my overall vision, but at the same time, I don't want to alienate some readers.

Thanks for taking the time to ponder this, guys. I really appreciate it.

All the best,
Steve
P.S. Which is the correct spelling -- Jeez or Geeze?

[Sean D. Schaffer]

Steve,

I think the problem here is not so much the characters, as possibly your attitude toward them. Try to remember that your characters are not extensions of you personally, and if you think they should be realistic to the area they're located in, then make them what they need to be.

This is basically my way of saying not to worry about their language so much as how you, the author, interpret their language. As the writer you can make it very clear that you find the words distasteful while at the same time having your characters use those words. The trick, I think, is in the tone of the narrative and not necessarily in the characters' tones.

Also, you might want to think about how earlier writers -- masters of the Craft who didn't have the option of cursing so much -- used their creativity to get the needed effect. A good example of this is Robert Louis Stevenson, whose pirate characters in Treasure Island were some of the most blood-thirsty characters I've ever read about. They did curse, but not to the point it was overwhelming for readers of Stevenson's time. Rather, he used their actions to get the point across where language might not have been appropriate for the average reader to handle.

Maybe you should set the characters' mood and tone not by their language, in other words, but rather by their actions and their way of life. Sometimes, as the old saying goes, actions speak louder than words. If you have a problem with the language the characters use, try pointing out the kind of people they are through their actions instead ... and if language is still necessary, then try to insert mild stuff if only for the sake of the characters' being realistic.


I hope this helps you out, Steve, and I wish you the best with your work.


Oh, and I've seen the P.S. word spelled either way. I'm not sure there is a proper way of spelling it, although I usually spell it 'Geeze'.

[Judg]

That's actually something I'm wresting with in my current WIP. The two protagonists are in their early twenties and in love - they're both Christians and they kiss passionately, but they're not able to be married yet. I've worked hard to avoid any lewd descriptions, but it's like walking a tightrope, trying to keep the writing sincere to the passion and burning the characters are experiencing.

I'm also not sure how to deal with writing about intimacy between married couples. I guess the baseline is "nothing gratuitous", but great sex between a married couple is a beautiful thing and we should be encouraged by it, not ashamed of it. We should be encouraging our married readers that great sex is a wonderful thing, not a shameful thing that can't even be written about. But on the other hand, I agree that it shouldn't turn into graphic erotica. Some would point to the Song of Solomon as a "happy medium" but what would be a modern version of that?

Personally, I hesitate to use the Bible as a baseline for what's "gratuitous" (at least the Old Testament ;)). There's no shortage of rape, prostitution, torture, and murder there. Try reading the story of Judah's daughter-in-law with your mom - there's a thought to make you shudder!

I dunno. What do you guys think? I really appreciate this group and your insights.
III, in the Bible it's telling, not showing. Acknowledging that something happened is quite different from trying to make us relive it.

I do not want play by play accounts of even the holiest of sex, thank you very much. Whether I like it or not, it's going to get my hormones pumping, and I prefer to leave that privilege to my husband.

[Medievalist]

But the Bible doesn't describe what goes on play by play like a Hollywood movie. In fact, I seem to recall passages that summed up intercourse in about one line. It wasn't about getting the reader all lusty and turned on.

Errr . . . well, you might want to go re-read Canticles.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

Errr . . . well, you might want to go re-read Canticles.


And the Song of Solomon (also referred to as the Song of Songs) in a word-for-word translation from the original.

[III]

Wow, good points all around (and this is giving me an excuse not to wash my wife's car right now on this beautiful Saturday afternoon, heh heh). I think I get what some of you have said about "telling it" vs. "showing it" and avoiding the play-by-play. I think that's great advice that will help me in my writing. Thank you!

[Warning - Graphic content in this next paragraph. Seriously.]
At the same time, I think there are some pretty graphic play-by-plays in the OT. I referenced the story of Judah's daughter-in-law where his son pulls out during intercourse and spills his seed on the ground, and then we have Lot's daughters getting their father drunk and laying with him to get pregnant. And there's plenty of graphic violence in David's narratives. But I agree that that doesn't mean it's where we should go as 21st century Christian writers.

Yoshimi - I appreciate your explanation of "not leading the reader into sin". I think that's a good baseline and good advice.

I totally sympathize with Steve's struggle of how much graphic language to use to be true to the characters. There have been many times when I've thought "it would be so easy and sastisfying to just write a short story that doesn't have anything to do with Christianity and just really dive into a real-life gory story." I admit, I read almost exclusively non-Christian fiction including some horror and part of me would love to just write a Steven King'esque story like Hearts In Atlantis. But then I come back to the question of why am I writing at all? I go through similar things with music - why am I writing songs at all? For me, it always comes down to "God put it on my heart and I'm just doing it to connect with him and HOPEFULLY edify the people who are listening to it or reading it". That's just me, though.

I can name about a million times in my life when I erred on the side of being crass and I can pretty much say I've regretted all of 'em. The rarer times when I've erred on the side of nobility I've never regretted. I guess that's the road to maturity and I've got miles and miles to go, but writing is a good way of working it out.

Okay, now I'm just avoiding washing the car. Time to serve my wonderful, beautiful, best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-me wife...

[Steve W]

Hi,

Yes, Sean, good points. Thanks. But I can't always have actions that speak. Dialogue and internal monologue don't always allow actions. Plus, the character in question had a bad experience with religion, so it isn't merely my personality coming out through her, it's her backstory.

G**damn/ Oh, G** no!/ What the H***/ What in G**'s name, etc.

Would a book peppered with such expressions put a lot of Christian readers off or would they simply accept it as being representative of how much of the population talk/think?

Cheers,
Steve

[Medievalist]

And the Song of Solomon (also referred to as the Song of Songs) in a word-for-word translation from the original.

Canticles/Song of Songs/Song of Solomon is, by the way, very very much in the tradition of Near Eastern erotic poetry, specifically Egyptian erotic poetry.

[Judg]

Well and all, somehow it just doesn't have the same impact as a modern description of the sexual act as found in all kinds of contemporary fiction.

Steve, speaking only for myself, if the foul language is too present, I put a book down. It's like when the neighbours let their dog poo on your lawn; you never like it, but if it's easy to walk around you don't call the bylaw officers. If a professional dog walker comes by with a small flock of them and they all do their thing on the front door mat, you say, "Enough is enough."

That's how I react with secular fiction. I haven't read a lot of Christian fiction and haven't encountered much bad language when I have. I'm not sure how I would react emotionally to that.

[ned]

I've read the majority of the posts in this thread, but don't have the time to paste from everyone's remarks, so I'll reply to the things that stick most firmly in my mind:

First, the character who uses a lot of curse, i.e., taking the Lord's name in vain: Characterization can be accomplished in dozens of ways. One way is by including what other characters say about him. Or what they say to him.

It might be possible to have a character mention the using God's name offends him. It can be done without sounding pompous or preachy. Just say, "I was raised by grandma, who popped me in the mouth every time I said that, so when this guy talks that way, I want to do a grandma on him." In other words, it can be mentioned that he speaks this way without actually using the dialog.

A writer doens't have to quote every word a character says, just the ones that move the story forward.

I found an example last night, quite by accident, and it made me laugh because I remembered this thread. In the book I was reading, the author wrote,

"That vicious little--" He paused on the edge of a kennel word.


A kennel word. Cute. Now we know what he would have said, if he hadn't been talking to his sister. The author implied that this military man used that kind of language among his fellow offiers and friends, but not at home. It was effective.

[dub]

I know that certain people swear - I don't, and I don't associate with people who do, but realisticly foul language happens. My characters don't swear and don't associate with people who do; that said, sometimes substitute words just won't work. My thought is, rewrite the scene.

Oh, and my sainted grandmother, though fresh off the boat, said "oh my goodness" and it was as pure as driven snow. But, most editors will strike it.

[Steve W]

Hi,

Very informative. Thanks guys.

Steve

[scarletpeaches]

Every time you swear it makes baby Jesus cry. :cry:

[III]

Every time you swear it makes baby Jesus cry. :cry:

When I saw Scarletpeaches posted something on the how to swear thread I figured I was going to learn some new words that would damage my psyche.

[scarletpeaches]

It's my birthday. I can't swear today; I'm having my hair done and getting older and older...