Kid's Stuff

Dollywagon · Apr 16, 2007

I've been working on rhyming text for picture books. These are basically for children aged up to 7.
Anyhow, yesterday I thought I would try my hand at doing a story, in rhyming form, for mg boys aged 7-12.
At the moment I have about 1,500 words, and it's a definite story - fantasy founded in folklore - BUT, at which point does it turn into poetry???

Rhyming text for children under 7 is deemed "acceptable"
Poetry (for boys) 7 - 12 is deemed ????

poetinahat · Apr 17, 2007

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here. Is it important whether you call it a story or a poem, and why?

What is the issue with poetry for seven-to-twelve-year-old boys? Will boys not read a story because it rhymes? In the context of a picture book, does it matter whether you call it a story or an illustrated poem?

I remember being that age and enjoying immensely the poems of Robert Louis Stevenson and Robert Service - not to mention A.A. Milne.

I'm casting my mind back to think of rhyming stories, and I'm stumped at the moment - excluding songs, such as John Henry.

My opinion:

A story that rhymes is just that.
A poem doesn't need to rhyme, and a rhyming body of work -- no matter the length -- isn't necessarily a poem.
There's no reason a poem can't be a story, is there?
The word 'poem' has become like 'jazz' -- if the writer calls her work a poem, it's very difficult to refute the assertion. The identifying characteristics are increasingly intangible.

You've raised an engaging question, but I'm struggling to see where it leads.

Dollywagon · Apr 17, 2007

I'm struggling to see where it leads as well, Poet!!

I've been scribbling away and was quite happy with what I was doing, but then I wondered just how a publisher would view it in a query letter.

As you yourself said, will boys not read a story because it rhymes???? Or will a publisher presume they will not read it?

Does the word 'poetry' carry connotations that don't marry with what a modern boy would want to read?

Basically, I think I need to decide how to sell it as I am going along, because it doesn't seem to fit in with any of the categories that publishers now define.

Here's a couple of verses so you can get an idea of what I'm on with (please don't look at the punctuation/grammar - I'm still in mad scribbling phase)

I knew what I wanted, to leave, to come home,
to run from this place there and then.
But when I opened the door, a mist blocked my sight,
and I knew I was trapped in their den.

It swirled all around, like wild thing alive,
and full of strange things of the night.
But I put out my hand, deep into its depth,
pulling back when I felt something bite.

If you like, I want the story to be more powerful than the rhyme. It has to be to make it work.
Right, I've started rambling like a fool, so I'll bobby-off and do something else for a while.

poetinahat · Apr 17, 2007

Dollywagon, are you going to post this in SYW? I'd love to read the whole thing.

Of course, if it's kind of a poem, it wouldn't get kicked out of Poetry Critique (hint, hint)....

Dollywagon · Apr 17, 2007

Have you ever thought of running courses for people wanting to learn how to handle subtle hinting?

Actually I wasn't going to post it mainly because the whole thing seems a bit 'outside the box.'
Plus, you poetry guys scare the heck out of me. You use terminology that I don't understand and I start to dither!

I just write down the words as they come out. Very experienced poet I am :roll:

A. Hamilton · Apr 17, 2007

I don't have any professional literary expertise to offer, but I do have a large family and have lots of further experience with kids in that age range.
A few comments:
The snippet you shared would be very fun to read out loud to a child old enough to be scared some- I'd say starting at 5-7 ish, but depending on the child. And also fun for an older child to read to a younger one.

A child fairly new to reading, or needing some help, or encouragement (perhaps they don't really like to read) would benefit from and probably enjoy the rhyming structure (to read by themselves). The rythym it offers is easier to read than a lot of straight prose, especially when transitioning into a higher reading level.

I have a hard time categorizing this into the large age group you are targeting, perhaps instead you could target it by reading level. I'd suggest somewhere between 2.5 and 4.5.

Girls as well as boys would enjoy this story. Teachers would LOVE it.

I agree with Poetinahat, share it here somewhere.

Good luck to you.

Dollywagon · Apr 19, 2007

Right, I've finished it.
Now for the query letter.

I've been reading (and re-reading) what you think and bearing in mind Poets comment "if the writer calls her work a poem, it's very difficult to refute the assertion. The identifying characteristics are increasingly intangible." I've decided to call it 'a story told in rhyme.'

I also think that PH's idea of targeting a reading level as opposed to an age group is a really good idea.
Thing is, I am subbing to the UK market and our reading levels are different to yours. In fact, from what I can tell yours seem a lot more segmented than ours.

Here the categories that suit mine best seem to be a level 2 which is the level expected of a 7 year old and level 3-4 which takes them up to the age of 11.
Again I seem to have reverted back to the 7-11 age group somehow, but I could also include it would appeal to the reluctant reader market of older children.

The letter is a pig to do. No fun at all!

By the way PHD, our level 1 is basically just repeated language patterns. It seems a big leap from level 1 to level 2?

A. Hamilton · Apr 19, 2007

My knowledge of reading levels is based on experience as a parent and classroom volunteer, (in California). (SO if there's a teacher around and any of my information is not quite accurate, please feel free to correct me.) Basically they correspond with grade levels, with the level reflecting the expected reading ability for that grade level. But of course some children will be behind and others advanced. The content also is somewhat tailored to the normal age bracket for those grade levels. SO, a 3.0 reading level would reflect vocabulary and content for a 'proficient' third-grader, who would be somewhere between the age of late 7 to 9 years old.
THere is a pretty big change in content and vocabulary somewhere around reading level 3, as compared to 1 or 2. Just like many third graders are approaching puberty and developing new social interests, and are better able to separate reality from imagination.

A. Hamilton · Apr 19, 2007

P.S. good luck with the query!
Let us know how it goes.

Kid's Stuff

Dollywagon

poetinahat

Numbers are beautiful

Dollywagon

poetinahat

Numbers are beautiful

Dollywagon

A. Hamilton

here for a minute...catch me?

Dollywagon

A. Hamilton

here for a minute...catch me?

A. Hamilton

here for a minute...catch me?