Why Medieval Fantasy?

Lady Esther · Apr 14, 2007

It seems that most fantasy authors write about Medieval society. Is this because Medieval fantasy sells more than any other fantasy? I'm just wondering. My WIP is set in prehistoric times and I'm feeling a bit lonley in this century by myself.

Is their any other authors out their writing about prehistoric times?

Judg · Apr 14, 2007

Well, mine is set in the future, strictly speaking, but the world is more at a Renaissance stage of development. In a Middle Eastern geographical location with an English culture.

And yes, there is a reason for each of those things.

Michael Dracon · Apr 14, 2007

I blame Tolkien. He's one of the people responsible for a lot of the cliche Fantasy settings many people take for granted nowadays. Medieval setting, elves, dwarves and trolls are prime examples.

MattW · Apr 14, 2007

Fantasy relies a lot on magic, and many primary sources or earliest exant ones about fantastic elements are from the middle ages or late antiquity.

There's also a romanticism about castles and mounted warriors. After long centuries of increasing violence due to firearms and mass weapons, the simle man vs man combat has some throwback merit to escapists.

Cathy C · Apr 14, 2007

Violence is on a more personal level at the time. It's one-on-one combat, which is ideal for both physical encounters and magical ones in text. Also, life was generally harder, which creates dramatic tension. Let's face it, it's not nearly as interesting to read about turning on a faucet, as go draw water from the stream to drink, or gather wood to roast something on a spit versus pulling out the old camp stove. Contemporary fantasies have to work that much harder to turn the mundane into creative endeavors.

Michael Dracon · Apr 14, 2007

I agree with Cathy. In the minds of many people Fantasy is most often synonymous to 'something different'. The more different, the easier it is seen as Fantasy. Putting something into a medieval setting accomplishes that much faster than staying in a modern world.

So why a medieval and not a prehistoric setting? Well, there is also something as too different. If there are too little amount of connections with the real world people will often dismiss it because it just simply does not compute in their brains. They'll just end up thinking 'what the hell is this all about?'. The brain needs reference points. Things that very clearly state: See, this is where it's different from the normal world.

So that's one more reason why a medieval setting is an easy way to go. It's our immediate past. Many people know about it from museums and things we see still standing in our neighborhood or on vacation. We've got many references to it being our society, but different.

PS: There is always a few that have similar mindsets as the original creator of the setting. They'll understand, but the less people do so the less likely you'll sell your creation. It's the same as with art.

Claudia Gray · Apr 14, 2007

For what it's worth, I think that the market for non-medieval fantasy is growing all the time. The explosion in "urban fantasy" is a part of that, but I expect we'll see more innovative settings and worldbuilding in future, and possibly fewer princesses and bards and castles.

And although I obviously cannot judge without seeing your work, if anybody tells you "prehistoric" means "non-commercial," just remember that somebody probably told Jean Auel that, too.

The Grift · Apr 14, 2007

IMHO, I don't think that it is necessarily medieval. To an unknowledgeable reader, using the technology of Chinese culture from several millenia ago might look very similar to 1200's Europe. Very rarely do I see a fantasy set in an alternate world where all of the tecnology and architecture would have been confined to one period here on earth. The settings of LoTR looked like ancient vikings, mideastern nomads, feudal European society, and even ancient chinese or late European with the gunpowder and whatnot. If anything, we should just say that the technology and settings of most fantasy encompass post-stone and pre-industrial, which encompasses thousands and thousands of years.

Lady Esther · Apr 14, 2007

ClaudiaGray said:
For what it's worth, I think that the market for non-medieval fantasy is growing all the time. The explosion in "urban fantasy" is a part of that, but I expect we'll see more innovative settings and worldbuilding in future, and possibly fewer princesses and bards and castles.

And although I obviously cannot judge without seeing your work, if anybody tells you "prehistoric" means "non-commercial," just remember that somebody probably told Jean Auel that, too.

Thanks, I feel a litttle better now

zornhau · Apr 15, 2007

First and foremost, I like to play with the knowledge and experience I have; I'm a medievalist by academic background, and also know what a plate melee feels like.

However, from a literary point of view, the quasi Medieval world is familiar to readers, and more than adequate for telling tales of overt personal power/responsibility and hands on violence. Why create another just for that?

Anthony Ravenscroft · Apr 15, 2007

Because it was the ragged beginning of Science, with well-funded alchemists running around & poisoning themselves with mercury & such. It was the beginning of the "rationalisation" of ritual -- or at least that's how it's been romanticised.

I've studied the herbal knowledge of various indigenous tribes. To say that those people were "preliterate" is (far as I'm concerned) a mortal insult. They experimented, they observed, they made detailed notes -- the fact that these notes weren't written down doesn't make them any less scientific than the Court Astrologer, just because the latter had access to parchment & quill.

China had a much better courtly life, dating back past the point they were discovering written language in Uruk or Egypt. However, setting it in the Middle or Dark Ages allows for great laziness & churning the muck of King Arthur & Robin Hood & Wagner, as well as making it easier to pretend that the world has always been made up of fairskinned civilised folk, except for some of those uncouth dusky others scattered here & there.

Higgins · Apr 15, 2007

Conventions

Anthony Ravenscroft said:
...., setting it in the Middle or Dark Ages allows for great laziness & churning the muck of King Arthur & Robin Hood & Wagner, as well as making it easier to pretend that the world has always been made up of fairskinned civilised folk, except for some of those uncouth dusky others scattered here & there.

Yes...the setting in a "Medieval" world allows one to dodge a lot of issues about how actual history really happens...for that matter the "Medieval-ness" of "Medieval Fantasy" is itself a fantasy. There's really not much of a Medieval nature (or any other historical nature) in most of it.

Teraphim · Apr 15, 2007

Hm... I think the "medieval" nature of stories has more to do with the historical tradition of literary romances like "Silence" and "Le Morte de Arthur".

However, beginning about the time of Conan and Tolkein, things tended to become all a series of events that exist in a time beyond time, and a place beyond place.

Medieval military tech and tactics may be the norm, but Conan is not describable as "Medieval" any more than Earthsea.

I think the signs of manhood carried over from the medieval romances. Iron tech became a convenient artistic shorthand and the visceral style of combat was right against the edge of modern warfare - thus, tactics were still pretty close to what was familiar.

But, I don't think it's actually "Medieval". I think it's just a set of convenient symbols. Really, each fantasy novel is the modern world with different signposts, and different technological influences. If anything, it's science fiction with swords instead of lasers and elves instead of aliens.

If everyone says - and we do - that SF is just fantasy, the reverse is also true.

Darkedge · Apr 15, 2007

Hmm... prehistoric times might actually be a cool place for fantasy, but in my opinion the main reason it's set in medieval times is because most "fantasy" stories set in the future are often classed as "science fiction" despite some of the obvious differences. Also, current fantasy does have a pretty large collection (such as Harry Potter I guess...), but often magic and guns, or computers, don't mesh that well, but I have seen people pull it off. That leaves the past, and mythology and stories, such as King Arthur (as has been mentioned), have the most "fantastic" environments.

zornhau · Apr 16, 2007

Four good reasons for using an ersatz Western Medieval world:

1. You are more interested in story than setting.
Like a Wild West setting, the Middle Ages requires little or no explanation, so you can get on and tell your tale of politics and violence. Example: George RR Martin Song of Ice and Fire.

2. You need a familiar reference point in the face of something weirder
We - in the West at least - find it easy to identify with our Medieval ancestors. Thus, if you are featuring one very different culture, it makes sense to use an Ersatz Medieval culture to provide contrast and viewpoint characters. Example: Raymond E Feist's Magician series.

3. You want to explore Western cultural or historical themes
Many of our cultural assumptions came into being or were overt during the the Middle Ages. This makes the milieu a good playground for thought experiments. Example: Much of the work of Guy Gavriel Kay.

4. You are steeped in the Medieval world and want to have fun with it
"Write about what you know." Think of this as Medievalist fanfic. Example: Mary Gentle, Ash.

MattW · Apr 16, 2007

I've added examples to each of your reasons:

zornhau said:
Four good reasons for using an ersatz Western Medieval world:

1. You are more interested in story than setting.
Like a Wild West setting, the Middle Ages requires little or no explanation, so you can get on and tell your tale of politics and violence. Example: George RR Martin Song of Ice and Fire.

R Scott Bakker Prince of Nothing revolves around a great religious crusade that borrows heavily from the actual Crusades. But it really is about people and how they act in situations.

2. You need a familiar reference point in the face of something weirder
We - in the West at least - find it easy to identify with our Medieval ancestors. Thus, if you are featuring one very different culture, it makes sense to use an Ersatz Medieval culture to provide contrast and viewpoint characters. Example: Raymond E Feist's Magician series.

Almost anything that involves a farm boy orphan or innocent goes this way - to introduce the odd through the eyes of an blank character.

3. You want to explore Western cultural or historical themes
Many of our cultural assumptions came into being or were overt during the the Middle Ages. This makes the milieu a good playground for thought experiments. Example: Much of the work of Guy Gavriel Kay.

Dont' know if I've got one for this...Maybe Kurtz' Deryni and the persecution of the different.

4. You are steeped in the Medieval world and want to have fun with it

Click to expand...

"Write about what you know." Think of this as Medievalist fanfic. Example: Mary Gentle, Ash.

Jo Walton, though I couldn't finish due to the minutiae, was highly detailed in the logistics of Dark Ages warfare.

Chasing the Horizon · Apr 16, 2007

As a reader, I'm sick of medieval fantasy settings. All I ever hear from agents and editors (blogs and such) is how they want to see something 'new and different' with fantasy. If that's true, I can't imagine having a non-medieval setting would hurt your chances of getting published.

I personally write about a fantasy world with industrial age technology. The contradictions can be fun and interesting, and I have the options of using both magic and technology in stories.

I guess I can't join you in the prehistoric age, but you're not the only one who doesn't write medieval.

Tirjasdyn · Apr 17, 2007

Steampunk!

It's the wave of the past, jump on board.

The Grift · Apr 17, 2007

I hate it when I think I've come up with something blindingly original and then realize its already been done to death. Steampunk is one of those things.

Also, it turns out I did not in fact invent the internet.

MarkButler · Apr 17, 2007

Steampunk and cyberpunk are some great examples of mashing two genres together to create a new world though.
It seems like there are other possibilities as well - there is probably a genre-mashup website somewhere but I am too lazy to look for it. How about something like NoirPunk or GothPunk or to get away from the punk, SlasherRomance or CowboySpaceOpera

Plot Device · Apr 17, 2007

ALL fantasy requires that you invent a world with a functioning cosmology and discernible rules governing that cosmology. The Medieval period lends itself well to this requirement.

Michael Dracon · Apr 17, 2007

MarkButler said:
Steampunk and cyberpunk are some great examples of mashing two genres together to create a new world though.
It seems like there are other possibilities as well - there is probably a genre-mashup website somewhere but I am too lazy to look for it. How about something like NoirPunk or GothPunk or to get away from the punk, SlasherRomance or CowboySpaceOpera

I'm pretty certain I've seen something that was NoirPunk. I just can't get my brain to function well enough to remember what it was. I think it was an Anime series of some type. Serial Experiment Lain mayhaps?

GothPuck has definitely been done before. White Wolf has published well over a hundred RPG books in their old World of Darkness, consistantly marketing that whole setting as Gothic Punk. I know this all too well, because at one point I owned about half of those books.

And with SlasherRomance my head seems to jolt towards the Saw movie trilogy for some reason. I think it's because of some of the stuff going on with the girl following in Jigsaw's footsteps and the relation she has with him.

CowboySpaceOpera is easy: Firefly/Serenity.

Plot Device · Apr 17, 2007

Michael Dracon said:
CowboySpaceOpera is easy: Firefly/Serenity.

And the original Battlestar: Galactica.

Michael Dracon · Apr 17, 2007

Plot Device said:
And the original Battlestar: Galactica.

Now that I think of it, you've got a point there. The only other things that just screams out SpaceWestern that I know is several old and new cartoons like Bravestarr, Saber Rider, Cowboy Bebop and Trigun.

MarkButler · Apr 18, 2007

Michael Dracon said:
I'm pretty certain I've seen something that was NoirPunk. I just can't get my brain to function well enough to remember what it was. I think it was an Anime series of some type. Serial Experiment Lain mayhaps?

GothPuck has definitely been done before. White Wolf has published well over a hundred RPG books in their old World of Darkness, consistantly marketing that whole setting as Gothic Punk. I know this all too well, because at one point I owned about half of those books.

And with SlasherRomance my head seems to jolt towards the Saw movie trilogy for some reason. I think it's because of some of the stuff going on with the girl following in Jigsaw's footsteps and the relation she has with him.

CowboySpaceOpera is easy: Firefly/Serenity.

It sounds like alternative genres are doable (at least in the comics/film worlds) - I would think that makes them a viable genre for books as well.

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