Tragedy?

Oddsocks · Apr 8, 2007

How publishable/viable are stories with tragic endings these days? Is tragedy confined to the classics, or to literary fiction? Can it be done in commercial fiction?

I ask because I have a couple of stories with tragic or semi-tragic endings which I plan to write, and which I really want to write. From some agent blogs it seems that a tragic ending alone can be enough to turn people off a story - is this generally the case?

And, a side note - how do all of you feel about tragic stories? Do you write them?

Azure Skye · Apr 8, 2007

A tragic ending is a nice change as there are way too many happy endings. All I really want, as a reader, is an ending, if it's a stand alone.

I read a book last year that had a very open-ended ending and I threw it across the room. It was a great book, very well written but the lack of ending pissed me off.

scarletpeaches · Apr 8, 2007

I like ambiguous endings, Azura, purely because real life isn't wrapped up neatly at the end of each chapter.

Tragic endings, I like. I'm sick like that. As long as they're not one of those godawful DEMs. Don't get me started on dem DEMs.

Shady Lane · Apr 8, 2007

DEMs?

Azure Skye · Apr 8, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
I like ambiguous endings, Azura, purely because real life isn't wrapped up neatly at the end of each chapter.

Tragic endings, I like. I'm sick like that. As long as they're not one of those godawful DEMs. Don't get me started on dem DEMs.

I ended up writing my own ending -- the way I thought it should have ended.

DEM?

Deus ex Machina, yes?

CheshireCat · Apr 8, 2007

I can take a tragic ending in horror -- maybe. But I don't really like closing a book feeling depressed. Doesn't have to be a happy ending, but it needs to satisfy me.

Any way to wrap your tragic-ending story within another that has a more upbeat ending?

Just a thought.

Shady Lane · Apr 8, 2007

DEM?

Deus ex Machina, yes?

Aha.

maestrowork · Apr 8, 2007

Sure, tragic endings are still very viable -- love stories, in particular. But it has to be a satisfying payoff. It can't just be sad and be done with it.

scarletpeaches · Apr 8, 2007

You only say that because you leave a trail of broken hearts behind whenever you sign out of AW, Ray.

Novelhistorian · Apr 8, 2007

Oddsocks, I think you should write what you want to write. If you do, your work will have more feeling, and may be more convincing, than if you adopt a pose that doesn't feel natural.

It might also be helpful if you defined for yourself what tragic is, distinguishing it from the merely painful or unhappy. True tragedy can be very uplifting, so calling something tragic and assuming it's depressing may not be accurate and may place unreasonable limitations on you.

When I find an ending satisfying, that's because it seems to fit. I can't stand happy endings tacked onto a story whose compass has pointed in a different direction from page one. But there are also satisfying endings in which injustice is avenged, for instance, or the struggling protagonist earns a reward. My advice would be not to graft an ending of any stripe onto a story when it doesn't belong there.

maestrowork · Apr 8, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
You only say that because you leave a trail of broken hearts behind whenever you sign out of AW, Ray.

I am myself a tragic ending.

aruna · Apr 8, 2007

maestrowork said:
Sure, tragic endings are still very viable -- love stories, in particular. But it has to be a satisfying payoff. It can't just be sad and be done with it.

I'm with Ray. I find that many books seem to have a tacked on tragic ending just because, well, yanno, it's cool to have a sad ending.

For me, the explanation "life's like that" is no explanation; a novel isn't life; and though there's tragedy life cotinues afterwards, and who knows, after the tragedy something wonderful may happen. That's life too!

Whereas the ending of a novel is simply the point there the writer chooses to end it. For me, this is most satisfying when the main question or quest of the story has been solved or resolved. It might be a happy place or a sad place. One of my favourite books of all time is For Whom the Bell Tolls and it has the most devastating ending possible - but it is also the only ending possible.

House of Sand and Fog also has a tragic ending, an ending that doesn indeed resolve the conflict. I found it satisfyin g on the whole.

I think that in our times nobody expects a happy ending except in romance. Just do what feels right. Unresolved endings make me want to tear up the book!

Raphee · Apr 8, 2007

Books come in all shapes and sizes. As does life. I don't believe that tragic ending ending should not be done if the story dictates it.
and I agree with Aruna that the book is about the story and it's logical ending as percieved in the authors mind.
The moon and six pence does not have a happy ending; but it does have a satisfying ending in the way the protagonist achieves his goals.

Oddsocks · Apr 9, 2007

I'm glad to hear that people aren't completely against the idea. I'm not talking about tragic endings tacked on 'just because' - when I first get an idea, I never mean to develop it specifically into a tragedy. It's just the way that the consequences of things fall in those worlds with those plots. It's an inherent part of the plot, so I don't think that particular story could be written any other way.

Also, in one case (the 'semi-tragedy'), I don't really think it's tragic at all, but because the ending will be open to interpretation to an extent, it's possible people could see it that way. In your opinions, would this be too unsatisfying - if you're not sure whether or not it's tragic?

Kay_XX · Apr 9, 2007

I think a good tragic ending is a lot harder to pull of than a happy ending. With a happy ending, readers are more easily persuaded to accept it as it rewards them. With a tragic ending, if the reasoning behind it is faulty, you will get a lot of frustrated, angry readers.

I've been so angry finishing books where the author kills the main character just because it's the easy way to end the story and gets a reaction from the reader. And while one might argue any reaction is good, I've not ever gone back to those writers (I can hold a grudge, me, especially when it comes to killing off characters I like).

But then there are stories that have a tragic ending that are just so true that you're overwhelmed by feeling and yet you know there was no other option.

(Irving's A Prayer For Owen Meany and Gladiator spring to mind when I think of stories that have very satisfying but tragic endings)

JPLangsdorf · Apr 9, 2007

I like 'bittersweet' endings. I like the story to be resolved, and I tend to lean towards certain events ending 'positively'. But as concerns the individual characters, nobody ever gets through things unscathed, and sometimes people die. If there's no loss, the victory doesn't seem quite as worthwhile to me.

But I don't like wholly depressing endings, either. I think something should be accomplished and something should be lost. But that's my personal taste. If it tells a good story, it's a good ending.

swvaughn · Apr 9, 2007

I like tragic endings because I dig anime. Or maybe that should be the other way around.

But - as Maestro said - they have to be satisfying tragic endings.

jodiodi · Apr 9, 2007

I've often written tragic and bittersweet endings. However, once I decided to try marketing my stuff as 'Romance', I had to make the endings 'happily ever after' as that is a requirement for romance novels. I liked my ending that told how the main character died later on. It was sweet as she was a regular person and her husband was immortal. She got old, he didn't; she eventually died peacefully and he had to deal with her death. They loved each other tremendously and he kept flowers on her grave and visited her every day. It made my readers bawl like babies, but they loved it. Now, however, I had to completely rewrite it to make it a HEA. I feel it lost something.

IrishScribbler · Apr 10, 2007

I'm a sucker for tragic/semi-tragic/not happy endings, as well as somewhat ambiguous endings.

I agree that it's more realistic that way. Although life does have happy endings sometimes.

Spiny Norman · Apr 10, 2007

I enjoy tragic or uncertain endings more, but I agree that it matters more if it fits, as said above repeatedly.

The question I love to ask is, "Does it work?" If so, then, the hell with it.

Tragic or grim endings are far more common than we give them credit - Chinatown, The Spy Who Came In From the Cold, The Constant Gardener, Sin City, Sandman, Memento, most of Vonnegut, lots of Douglas Adams... Some of these aren't just when the MC dies, but when he outright fails. When he's beaten. John le Carre is the master of the modern gritty ending, I think. But if it says something true about the world and if it completes the storyline, then you've done what you set out to do as a writer.

Mr. Fix · Apr 10, 2007

Don't kill the puppy!

I too am a sucker for the tragic ending. But this often leads to the sequel because the general audience wants 'closure.' I think of things like the movie 'Terminator' (not for any great writing, just my theory.) The first movie was great. The ending promised doom. It should have just stopped there. Not that I didn't like the following movies, but if you noticed, the Govinator's claim to "great fame" arose from that role, and he just couldn't live with that 'evil' image. So we have the sequel and the 'nice' Terminator.

Love the Termininator, embrace the Terminator, the Terminator is your friend, resistance is futile... oops, wrong line...

Oddsocks · Apr 10, 2007

I can't work out whether I like tragic endings or not. I like them because, when they fit, they are emotionally involving, and I guess I feel like I care more about them than I do about happy ones. I love bittersweet ones, though, but I don't like it if a favourite character dies.

Has anyone seen the fullmetal alchemist anime? I found that ending particularly powerful.

Tragedy?

Oddsocks

Azure Skye

Huh?

scarletpeaches

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

Azure Skye

Huh?

CheshireCat

Mostly purring. Mostly.

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

scarletpeaches

Novelhistorian

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

Raphee

In debt to AW

Oddsocks

Kay_XX

JPLangsdorf

swvaughn

adrift

jodiodi

Reflections of Reality

IrishScribbler

Spiny Norman

Mr. Fix

Fixed on the future...

Oddsocks