Business plans and copyright

LloydBrown · Apr 5, 2007

If you write business plans, do your clients have concerns because you retain the copyright to your work? If so, do you feel it's a barrier to converting a customer, or is it easily explained? Or do you do the work as work-for-hire and copyright the work in the client's name?

Deleted member 42 · Apr 5, 2007

It's work for hire, and I wouldn't bother with copyright. That's their issue.

LloydBrown · Apr 5, 2007

Medievalist said:
It's work for hire, and I wouldn't bother with copyright. That's their issue.

It's only work for hire under certain specific circumstances, including specifying that it's work-for-hire in a contract between the writer and the client. It doesn't have to be work-for-hire.

I don't understand what you mean when you say you don't bother with it. It's already copyrighted the moment you write it down. You've already begun bothering with it when you wrote it. Do you mean you don't register the copyright? If so, I would agree, because I can't see any reason for copyright registration at all.

I have a great deal of respect for your talent, Lisa, and I appreciate the effort to help, but you seem to confuse me more than you answer.

Tsu Dho Nimh · Apr 5, 2007

LloydBrown said:
If you write business plans, do your clients have concerns because you retain the copyright to your work? If so, do you feel it's a barrier to converting a customer, or is it easily explained? Or do you do the work as work-for-hire and copyright the work in the client's name?

Why would I even WANT to retain copyright?

I usually do "work for hire" ... if they wanted to formally copyright a business plan for them I would, but it's not as though there are movie rights in the offing.

LloydBrown · Apr 5, 2007

Tsu Dho Nimh said:
Why would I even WANT to retain copyright?

The first thing I can think is that you might want to re-use generic text for future plans (for example, a market analysis will be the same for any two companies entering the same segment of the same industry). There might be others; I haven't fully considered everything yet. That's one of the reasons I want more input first.

I'm reluctant to do work-for-hire unless necessary just out of a general desire not to give up any more rights than I have to. You never can tell what might be useful 5 years down the road.

Tish Davidson · Apr 5, 2007

Usually business plans are proprietary information. Did you have to sign a non-disclosure agreement saying you would not reveal any proprietary info? If so, holding the copyright isn't going to make a whole lot of difference in terms of re-using the material.As for re-using the market analysis, you'd have to be reusing it soon for it to be valid, since market conditions are constantly changing. I don't see much value in retaining the copyright to something like this. However, I am very surprised a business would hire you to do this work and not have it on a work made for hire basis and not have you sign non-disclosure agreements up the wazoo.

LloydBrown · Apr 5, 2007

I am very surprised a business would hire you to do this work and not have it on a work made for hire basis and not have you sign non-disclosure agreements up the wazoo.

Eh. Sometimes your clients are real professionals whose foresight in obtaining a business plan will help carry them through to success. Sometimes they have plenty of money and a friend told them "you need a business plan." Not everybody is familiar with NDAs or WFH, especially (in my experience) would-be restauranteurs. I'll quite happily take money from all kinds of people.

Deleted member 42 · Apr 5, 2007

LloydBrown said:
It's only work for hire under certain specific circumstances, including specifying that it's work-for-hire in a contract between the writer and the client. It doesn't have to be work-for-hire.

No, but . . . what's the point in asserting copyright, unless there's a clause in your contract that specifies who retains copyright?

LloydBrown said:
I don't understand what you mean when you say you don't bother with it. It's already copyrighted the moment you write it down. You've already begun bothering with it when you wrote it. Do you mean you don't register the copyright? If so, I would agree, because I can't see any reason for copyright registration at all.

Yes; I was sure you know that copyright is inherent in the creation of a work; I thought that your question was about registering the copyright.

In some states there are specific laws about work for hire copyright, but for this kind of writing I don't even think about copyright unless there's specific language about copyright in the contract.

LloydBrown · Apr 5, 2007

Medievalist said:
No, but . . . what's the point in asserting copyright, unless there's a clause in your contract that specifies who retains copyright?

I'm not exactly sure myself, other than, as I mentioned, my natural tendency to want to retain rights whenever possible.

I was just creating a style template for my own use and considered putting copyright info in the front. I'm trying to weigh the value of retaining copyright vs. the knee-jerk reaction of clients who don't understand copyright or who intelligently question my keeping it, and all the other factors.

Voluntarily treating it as WFH and pointing out that you're giving the client copyright to non-copyright-knowledgeable clients might present a more professional and informed image. Does that overcome any minor benefit of retaining copyright?

Often on AW, when I post a question, it seems that I'm reinventing the wheel: somebody comes right along and links me to a 30-page discussion. I half expected somebody to say "Oh, you never do that. Here's why."

Right now I'm not seeing much value in the copyright for me. Any opposition to that point of view?

Tsu Dho Nimh · Apr 6, 2007

LloydBrown said:
The first thing I can think is that you might want to re-use generic text for future plans (for example, a market analysis will be the same for any two companies entering the same segment of the same industry). There might be others; I haven't fully considered everything yet. That's one of the reasons I want more input first.

I'm reluctant to do work-for-hire unless necessary just out of a general desire not to give up any more rights than I have to. You never can tell what might be useful 5 years down the road.

That market analysis: if they financed it, it's theirs. If it's industry standard, I'll know where it is. And in five years, it will be out of date.

What I get out of work for hire is experience and knowledge. I may leave the text behind, but what I learned is portable.

wenwriter · Apr 11, 2007

Tish Davidson said:
Usually business plans are proprietary information. Did you have to sign a non-disclosure agreement saying you would not reveal any proprietary info? If so, holding the copyright isn't going to make a whole lot of difference in terms of re-using the material.

That's what I was going to mention. I've been writing a section of a business plan for a start-up business and I signed a non-disclosure agreement. If your client is unsure or uncomfortable over copyright issues, just agree to sign a non-disclosure agreement and they should be more comfortable with moving forward.

LloydBrown · Apr 11, 2007

And in a related question, does anybody include a Table of Contents? You'd think they'd be handy--the lender who looks only at the management flips to page 12, while the guy who just wants to see the financials looks for those page numbers.

None of the models or samples I've seen uses one.

Business plans and copyright

Deleted member 42

Deleted member 42