Paying for critiques, worth it?

Joe270 · Apr 3, 2007

I'm sure this has been done before here at AW, but I can't find the threads.

I'm burned out on betas, they don't have the expertise needed to give me a line by line hit list. Hey, it's great they love everything I write and I'm the next best seller guaranteed and blah, blah, blah. That won't get the novel published. And I am now weary of real writers who start critiques with 'this isn't my cup of tea, but . . ." I need professional help at this stage. (All right, all right, stop giggling about including phsychiatric links now, people. Stop it. Stop.)

Are any of the professional reader websites worth the bucks?

seun · Apr 4, 2007

I used one about five years ago. It cost me £450 if I remember correctly. I'm not sure I'd do the same now but that could be because I know that book isn't publishable. They did help me mainly with character development and pacing which I've been able to use in subsequent books.

I suppose whether or not you use one depends on how strongly you believe your book is publishable and the financial issue. At the least, you should get some advice/help you can use for other books.

aruna · Apr 4, 2007

I used a professional critique. She was excellent,. and helped me bring my book up to publishable standard - and helped me find an agent. That was in the UK, where the word "professional critique" doesn't cause noses to turn skyward!
Just make sure you get a good one - there are lots of scammers out there. Look for ones who list published authors they've worked for.

johnrobison · Apr 4, 2007

When I look at the careful work that my editorial team has done to get my book ready for publication, it's clear to me that you'd pay quite a lot of money - thousands for sure - to buy that level of service on the outside.

You might get some valuable advice for a few-hundred dollar fee. But I'm not sure how much more that would be worth that readers in a writing class, for example.

aruna · Apr 4, 2007

I paid around £300 for my critique, and I assure you it was excellent.

KTC · Apr 4, 2007

I do it myself (charge for full manuscript critiques), and I still wouldn't recommend it. (In fact I have several times talked people out of doing it through me.)

FredCharles · Apr 4, 2007

I think that it may be worth it on some level. I wouldn't spend too much, but it may be the only way to get a real honest opinion. You can't really count on friends and family to tell you the truth about your writing or let you know if something is wrong with it.

JimmyB27 · Apr 4, 2007

FredCharles said:
I think that it may be worth it on some level. I wouldn't spend too much, but it may be the only way to get a real honest opinion. You can't really count on friends and family to tell you the truth about your writing or let you know if something is wrong with it.

I'd trust my very closest friends to be entirely honest with me - they know just how much this writing gig means to me, and how important getting it right is.

waylander · Apr 4, 2007

I had a paid edit on my novel (also in the UK) and thought it was money well-spent. That was after going through critiquing with a good crit group. But that was me and my novel. It depends on who you are planning on using. The editor I used is a well-known person within the industry with an impeccable set of editing credentials in my genre.

Devil Ledbetter · Apr 4, 2007

FredCharles said:
I think that it may be worth it on some level. I wouldn't spend too much, but it may be the only way to get a real honest opinion. You can't really count on friends and family to tell you the truth about your writing or let you know if something is wrong with it.

That depends on your family. My family is merciless. There's a reason we call my dad Nega-tor.

I can't wait to get my beta copy ready so they can rip into it.

Melanie Nilles · Apr 4, 2007

I used a "professional editor" twice on two different shorts and LOVED her services. She helped me improve by leaps and bounds. I paid for a line-by-line critique, but it cost me a couple hundred. She also does general crits for less. The right person can make a difference.

Button · Apr 4, 2007

I've heard it both ways.

I hear from writers who were tempted at some point and then changed their minds. They just got to work and got published anyway.

Others credit an editor for helping them get 'into the groove' and some who continue to use an editor into their career.

At http://www.eharlequin.com/ they have a critic service for romance writers.

I don't think anyone has to, but if you feel more comfortable getting someone else to look at it, just make sure you check the credentials. Make sure they have been an editor or agent and have bought/sold manuscripts for publishers. (Or a writer who has sold a number of books.)

On occasion, writers like Holly Lisle will auction off a manuscript critic. The money either goes to some writer who needs it at the moment or to a charity. They'll review your manuscript and let you know what to do from there.

I've thought about it a thousand times, but I think I'll do it only if all of my current books I have written have been rejected to everyone I send them to. I'll wait until I'm pretty sure something is wrong and I'm too close to see it.

aruna · Apr 4, 2007

JimmyB27 said:
I'd trust my very closest friends to be entirely honest with me - they know just how much this writing gig means to me, and how important getting it right is.

But unless those friends are in the publishing industry thet cannot give you a professional critique - no matter how honest they are. Non-writers and non-editors simply cannot identify serious problems in a ms.

As others have said, it really depends on the writer, the situation, the manuscript. I definitelt did not want to use a crit group; not that I knew of any at the time. But it was exactly the right thing to do.

Gillhoughly · Apr 4, 2007

I went through betas, frustration, rewrites, more betas, the works--everything but hiring someone to read my first book.

I looked into and considered it, then decided my money was better spent on postage to send queries out to people who could write a check for my words. Yog's Law rules.

It took two years and a lot of rewrites, but it worked. My novel was bought off the slush pile.

And I didn't spend even half as much as I'd have dropped for a pro critique.

Jump into the pool, sink or swim, but take action.

Good luck!

aruna · Apr 4, 2007

Gillhoughly said:
I

Jump into the pool, sink or swim, but take action.

Good luck!

If Joe feels the need for a professional critique than just maybe it is what he needs. I've never regretted my decision to do so. Maybe I could have got there by trial and error, after a few years. But again, maybe not.
I got a great agent, a great publisher and a great advance within a few months. What's so very wrong with that? I did not lose money; I received quite a bit.

And I needed the money, right there and then. It was a godsend, that changed my life around.

JimmyB27 · Apr 4, 2007

aruna said:
But unless those friends are in the publishing industry thet cannot give you a professional critique - no matter how honest they are. Non-writers and non-editors simply cannot identify serious problems in a ms.

I don't get this point of view. My friends are readers. At the end of the day, readers are the only people I care to please. They may not use the same technical words as another writer, or an editor, but they'll spot places where they had problems well enough.

tjwriter · Apr 4, 2007

Joe270 said:
I'm burned out on betas, they don't have the expertise needed to give me a line by line hit list. Hey, it's great they love everything I write and I'm the next best seller guaranteed and blah, blah, blah. That won't get the novel published. And I am now weary of real writers who start critiques with 'this isn't my cup of tea, but . . ." I need professional help at this stage.

May I ask what kind of betas you are using? Is it Bob from down the street, or have you submitted work here for critique in SYW? Have you checked into some of the betas offerred here?

If you are seeking more honest feedback and a more critical eye, you might try something here or at a site similar to this one. I know that in SYW you can get honest, detailed feedback on what works and what doesn't in your writing.

Just some thoughts, and I'm curious.

aruna · Apr 4, 2007

JimmyB27 said:
I don't get this point of view. My friends are readers. At the end of the day, readers are the only people I care to please. They may not use the same technical words as another writer, or an editor, but they'll spot places where they had problems well enough.

Friends can say what works and what doesn't works, but they can't tell you why. I can only say that the editing advice I got from the lady qho assessed my ms, and later my editor, was of a totally different calibre than the critique I'd get form a friend, no matter how honest.

This is what one poster above said:

When I look at the careful work that my editorial team has done to get my book ready for publication, it's clear to me that you'd pay quite a lot of money - thousands for sure - to buy that level of service on the outside.

All I can say is, for some people a paid critique is the right way, for some it isn't. For me it was. I won't do it again, but the first time around it was exactly what I needed. It was my way of learning the craft. UI doubt that the averge reader would have given me the advice I got from Hillary.

waylander · Apr 4, 2007

JimmyB27 said:
I don't get this point of view. My friends are readers. At the end of the day, readers are the only people I care to please. They may not use the same technical words as another writer, or an editor, but they'll spot places where they had problems well enough.

Well yes but.......if you are pursuing professional publication your friends are not equipped to judge the standard required.

Cav Guy · Apr 4, 2007

tjwriter said:
May I ask what kind of betas you are using? Is it Bob from down the street, or have you submitted work here for critique in SYW? Have you checked into some of the betas offerred here?

If you are seeking more honest feedback and a more critical eye, you might try something here or at a site similar to this one. I know that in SYW you can get honest, detailed feedback on what works and what doesn't in your writing.

Just some thoughts, and I'm curious.

What the OP may be looking for is a solid shaking of the entire MS, and not just the scene or two that can be worked into SYW.

Some people may need the confidence they get from a good editorial going-over (with all the usual "check their references" cautions and bits added before paying ANYONE for ANYTHING), and if so more power to them!

James D. Macdonald · Apr 4, 2007

Only you can tell if it's worth it to you.

veinglory · Apr 4, 2007

You can also get betas who are writers at your own level--usually on a quid pro quo basis. depends, what do you have more of, time or money? How much is the final book going to earn and what proportion of that is a reasonable investment?

aruna · Apr 4, 2007

Quite apart form the fact that it is a huge investment in time for readers. Do they have that time to spare for you, a stranger? Since they are doing it for free, you can't really give them a deadline. You are dependent on their goodwill, and then you may have to read their ms in return, and you may not have the time or inclination for that. Doing a return crit is also a form of payment!

I regard paying for a critique from a good editor simply as one way of getting my training. Some people take courses in creative writing or get MFAs; I never had this option. They also cost money!

And quite frankly, I much prefer the one-to-one work with an editor on a finished manuscript to taking, say, a course in creative writing, because you are working on a specific project.

JimmyB27 · Apr 4, 2007

waylander said:
Well yes but.......if you are pursuing professional publication your friends are not equipped to judge the standard required.

Why not? As readers, they are the ultimate consumers. Whose opinion matters more?

waylander · Apr 4, 2007

JimmyB27 said:
Why not? As readers, they are the ultimate consumers. Whose opinion matters more?

They may be the ultimate consumer, but they are not your immediate consumer; the editors and agents are. Your readers will have had no access to the recent slushpile and simply will not know the standard required to rise above it.

Paying for critiques, worth it?

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