Red-headed stepchildren of the writing kingdom

Birol · Apr 1, 2007

Many writers often talk about how unappreciated or undervalued they and the craft of writing is. Whether it is a family member who keep asking when you're going to get a "real" job, regardless of what you've earned from your writing in the past year, strangers who say, "I've got a great idea for a book/screenplay...", or people who expect you to write for their newsletters, for free, or submit to their publication and be paid in "exposure," almost every writer has someone who does not appreciate the time and effort that goes into the creation of coherent written words. My question is, is there a type of writing that is undervalued and underappreciated by other writers? Have you ever written something that has made another writer look at you and say, "Why are you wasting your time doing that?"

Sage · Apr 1, 2007

Other than fanfiction?

Birol · Apr 1, 2007

Fanfiction, comic books, erotica, things I haven't even considered. It's all fair game for discussion.

Sage · Apr 1, 2007

Yeah, going with fanfiction then. You get the people saying, "Stop using other people's ideas" (even if it's based on an RPG (where the universe is meant to be used with original (or not so original) plots and characters) or the creator has given permission for fanfic, or all the characters & of course the plot are original, you've just set it in that 'verse). You get the people telling you that, since you can never be published, that it's not worth writing. You get people dismissing it because, since there's nobody going through a slush pile & trimming the work down to the publishable stories, pretty much everything is available, including the bad, thus all fanfic is assumed to be slush. And other reasons I'm sure. They've all been debated on this site before, after all.

san_remo_ave · Apr 1, 2007

Birol said:
My question is, is there a type of writing that is undervalued and underappreciated by other writers? Have you ever written something that has made another writer look at you and say, "Why are you wasting your time doing that?"

Absolutely. Romance is common one.

I think that it's easy for some people to look down upon and ridicule the genre because of the "bodice ripper" connotation or cookie-cutter, Barbara Cartland-esque Harlequin series.

Just like any other genre, romance contains a range of variety and talent, but it is frequently desparaged and stereotyped.

PeeDee · Apr 1, 2007

Someday, someone will explain the red-headed step children joke to me. 'Cause I've been getting it since I was six, and I don't know.

And mine is serial fiction. I keep coming back to it, even though the odds of it doing anything but increasing my workload are slim. I can't help it. I just love it.

Jersey Chick · Apr 1, 2007

I'd definitely say romance. When it comes to comments, it's treated like the bastard red-headed stepchild. And those are usually made by people who claim they never read that "trash." Go figure.

Sage · Apr 1, 2007

PeeDee said:
Someday, someone will explain the red-headed step children joke to me. 'Cause I've been getting it since I was six, and I don't know.

I'm not sure where it originated, PeeDee, but the idea basically assumes that a step-child would be less loved by the step-parent than their blood-related children. Then that the situation would be more pronounced if, say, there's no red hair in the step-parent's family, and the step-child is red-haired, which would be a big obvious reminder to everyone, especially the step-parent that this child is not theirs. The phrase suggests that the red-headed step-child is looked down upon for this. (As Jersery Chick shows, it often has the word "bastard" in there too, which just emphasizes that point)

Of course, there are plenty of families with step-parents & step-children who look nothing alike (or look totally alike. Doesn't matter) but still love each other just as much (or more) as if they were related by blood, but the phrase assumes not.

JeanneTGC · Apr 1, 2007

PeeDee said:
Someday, someone will explain the red-headed step children joke to me. 'Cause I've been getting it since I was six, and I don't know.

It's not a "joke" so much as a punchline, if you will.

Redheads stand out and look different. So if you are the redheaded step-child, it's saying that you're the one being treated the worst, loved the least, ignored the most because not only are you not "theirs", but you also stand out in a big way as not theirs. And/or as a clear sign that mom cheated with that smooth redheaded stranger who passed through town.

Or something like that.

And, as for the on-topic question (see? I was getting to it), I'd toss in my vote for fanfiction, poetry, and generally anything not considered "hot" right now. I get a lot of suggestions to write something like the Da Vinci Code, which ignores the fact that I hate thrillers and wouldn't write one (and probably wouldn't write a good one, since I hate them).

I think genre in general gets the redheaded stepchild treatment, even though it makes up over 90% of all the books out there.

PeeDee · Apr 1, 2007

JeanneTGC said:
It's not a "joke" so much as a punchline, if you will.

Redheads stand out and look different. So if you are the redheaded step-child, it's saying that you're the one being treated the worst, loved the least, ignored the most because not only are you not "theirs", but you also stand out in a big way as not theirs. And/or as a clear sign that mom cheated with that smooth redheaded stranger who passed through town.

.........*bursts into tears*

JeanneTGC · Apr 1, 2007

PeeDee said:
.........*bursts into tears*

There, there, darling.

I'm a redhead, too.

They learn to appreciate us a bit later in life.

Like, as soon as we hit the "sex years".

And as soon as they learn that the idea of a "redheaded temper" is, actually, pretty darned accurate.

rugcat · Apr 1, 2007

What color is your hair, PeeDee? No reason, just curious.

Sage · Apr 1, 2007

PeeDee said:
.........*bursts into tears*

This is why I took the time to point out reality vs. a cliche.

weatherfield · Apr 1, 2007

Birol said:
Have you ever written something that has made another writer look at you and say, "Why are you wasting your time doing that?"

Why yes, yes I have

.

I went through a creative writing program, so anything I submitted to workshop that didn't fit a particular formula elicited some form of the above response. During undergrad, I kept myself in check, toed the line, whatever phrase you like, but in grad school, I sort of quit caring. That was the point at which I decided I would like to attempt making money. I started trying new things (genre things). It was an interesting exercise. The general assumption seemed to be that I was somehow lacking integrity, when really, I just wanted to write good books that people actually found engaging. On one memorable occasion, I was informed that literary horror, literary fantasy, and literary science fiction did not, in fact, exist. So I had a good laugh about that (later, in private).

People in various circles and industries often criticize MFA programs for churning out the same pretentious writer with a thousand different faces, but I think the experience can be valuable. I loved my education. It taught me when to seriously consider feedback, and when to nod and smile.

Judg · Apr 1, 2007

PeeDee, your current avatar is absolutely gross. You're just lucky I'm not sending you negative reps in appreciation.

Oh wait. That's not really YOU, is it???

weatherfield · Apr 1, 2007

PeeDee said:
Someday, someone will explain the red-headed step children joke to me. 'Cause I've been getting it since I was six, and I don't know.

The most interesting version I've heard is that during the eleventh century, when the Vikings were doing a lot of raping and pillaging, they left their fair share of red-haired offspring in various areas of Europe. Cruelly, but perhaps not unexpectedly, their surrogate fathers would resent and abuse the children, because they were obvious markers of shame and disaster. But there are also eleventy-billion other etymologies for this, so take it as you will.

/pedantry

ChaosTitan · Apr 1, 2007

Birol said:
Have you ever written something that has made another writer look at you and say, "Why are you wasting your time doing that?"

Extrapolating for a moment from fanfiction, I will add media tie-in novels. I don't write them, but at least one AW member does.

I wonder, do tie-in authors get the "Why are you wasting your time?" question from other authors? Tie-ins are often seen as paid fanfiction, and therefore inferior to original work. No consideration is given to the fact that tie-in work is often more difficult to write than original novels. Yes, you come with pre-packaged characters and a pre-established universe, but with those things also come restrictions.

You are bound by the wishes of the copyright holders. You often cannot change the characters or world in any significant way. You take them out, play a bit, and put them back relatively unharmed. It reminds me of a Pictionary, Jr. Edition game I had when I was a child. We kept it at my grandparents house, and my grandmother insisted we use a scribble pad for the drawings and crayons from a separate box, instead of the pad and pencils the game came with. I never really understood the logic in that, only the fact that she wanted the game back in the box "like new" when we were done playing.

So why write tie-ins? If I was to go that route, it would be for love of the property (for example, I'd give my left arm to write a Firefly novel). You may not achieve fame (outside of fan conventions) or fortune doing it, but it's as honest a way to earn a living as a writer as journalism or screenplays.

ChaosTitan · Apr 1, 2007

I just wanted to add: Lori, you create some of the coolest threads in this particular forum. Thanks.

LeslieB · Apr 1, 2007

JeanneTGC said:
And as soon as they learn that the idea of a "redheaded temper" is, actually, pretty darned accurate.

My husband tells people that he fully expects his cause of death to be listed as Redhead-Assisted Suicide.

PeeDee · Apr 1, 2007

rugcat said:
What color is your hair, PeeDee? No reason, just curious.

Only the bestest red hair ever, that's what!

chaostitan said:
I just wanted to add: Lori, you create some of the coolest threads in this particular forum. Thanks.

And yes, she really does. I've had more fun in the past couple of weeks in Roundtable than quite a lot of places recently. Certainly, it's made me write at greater length and think about things a lot harder. I've had a lot of fun.

Judg · Apr 1, 2007

*sigh* Just not rising to the bait, are you, PeeDee?

rugcat · Apr 1, 2007

Birol said:
My question is, is there a type of writing that is undervalued and underappreciated by other writers?

I've found other writers to be almost universally supportive, no matter what your genre or theirs. Published writers, that is.

But I've also found a particular subset of unpublished literary writers who look at me with an odd combination of jealousy and contempt and horror when they discover I've sold, of all things, a fantasy novel.

At least, they console themselves, he's not a real writer. They, of course, would never sink so low just to see their name in print.

Judg · Apr 1, 2007

Rugcat, that is TOO funny.

Weird, I got a degree in literature without ever running into that kind of attitude. Maybe if I had confessed to my love of LOTR in class... Or taken creative writing.

Marlys · Apr 1, 2007

rugcat said:
I've found other writers to be almost universally supportive, no matter what your genre or theirs. Published writers, that is.

Lucky you--even my published friends tell me I should write something else. Go figure.

Birol · Apr 1, 2007

I've often heard writers of children's books having to defend their choice of genre. When Mac rearranged the forums not too long ago, there were a couple of comments that made be believe comic book writers often felt disregarded by other writers, too.

Red-headed stepchildren of the writing kingdom

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