Local Slang usuage in dialogue?

sparx · Mar 30, 2007

Now that i have fully completed my first novel i decided to write something different, something realistic. So my second novel is called "Hoodie rhymes" and is set in backdrop of East London.

However, i'am having a problem. I don't know if i should use local slang lexis and colloquialisms in my characters dialogues. If i do use local slang in my dialogue will it alienate some readers(even if i put a glossary at the back) or should i just use typical teenager utterences(which means my dialogue looses realism)

Devil Ledbetter · Mar 30, 2007

I'd say use it, just make sure your readers can grasp the meanings from the context.

If my characters are sharing a joint, and one of them says "Spark that bad boy" or "Quit bogarting that doobie," I'd expect my readers to understand.

ETA: Hoodie rhymes in London made me think of this video: (Warning, lots of f-word) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l1F6BmKbO0&mode=related&search=

Marlys · Mar 30, 2007

I think there are a couple of ways you can introduce unfamiliar slang. The first is to use words that are easily understood in context--even if people don't get the exact meaning, they should be able to understand that an insult is an insult. Another way is to have a character who isn't from around there try to figure it out, either by asking or puzzling it out on her own.

Best of luck with it--and in my opinion, you should try not to overdo dialect or slang. A bit adds life and color, but yeah...too much might alienate readers.

scarletpeaches · Mar 30, 2007

You could always put a glossary at the back of your novel.

Rich · Mar 30, 2007

I don't do novels, but I think it's a bad idea. If you want to put a glossary in the back of the novel you best change it to a text book on east London slang--unless you're aiming it at only an east London readership. It's hard enough to write fiction, but if you play with an overabundance of dialogue only interpreted by a few, you're making the dialogue the theme.

Devil Ledbetter · Mar 30, 2007

Rich, you've not read Watership Down, have you?

blacbird · Mar 30, 2007

I think if you have to explain it in some external way (e.g., a glossary), it won't work. Whatever slang you use needs to be understandable in context to a reader. I don't want to have to be looking in the back of a novel to discover the meaning of an unfamiliar term.

caw

rugcat · Mar 30, 2007

Marlys said:
The first is to use words that are easily understood in context--even if people don't get the exact meaning, they should be able to understand that an insult is an insult.

I agree-- context is the key. If someone says,"he's a real marful, he won't even change a tire because he's afraid of getting his fingernails dirty," you won't know exactly what the word means, but you'll have a good enough idea to get a feeling for what kind of person he is.

Ardellis · Mar 31, 2007

I'd recommend reading A Clockwork Orange. Burgess's Nadsat is absolutely integral to the POV character and completely unfamiliar to the reader, and he handles it beautifully. In fact, he didn't want the US publisher to put in a glossary (but they did anyway). I read the glossary, but only after I'd read the book. It really wasn't necessary. Once you get into Alex's voice, you can get most of his terminology by context alone.

scarletpeaches · Mar 31, 2007

There's a recent Adele Parks novel which has a Strine glossary at the back. Only one or two pages, not enough to detract from the novel itself.

job · Mar 31, 2007

Dialog has to be written the way the characters actually talk.
You have characters who use slang ... be true to them.

Tone it down a bit if you must. Give context clues. Make meaning clear.
But let their natural voice come through.

Nothing wrong with a glossary, I suppose.
But you should make that glossary so unnecessary the reader is surprised to find it at the end of the book.

If the reader needed a glossary in the middle of some scene, you've broken the fictive haze.

TsukiRyoko · Mar 31, 2007

Local slang certainly adds to the feel of the story and helps give the characters a more personal touch (in addition to helping their true selves come out), but be careful when using it. Don't use too much, or people outside of the region may not be able to understand it, and be sure you have the slang correct for the time/place/etc. Slang is a tricky thing....

blacbird · Mar 31, 2007

Ardellis said:
I'd recommend reading A Clockwork Orange. Burgess's Nadsat is absolutely integral to the POV character and completely unfamiliar to the reader, and he handles it beautifully. In fact, he didn't want the US publisher to put in a glossary (but they did anyway). I read the glossary, but only after I'd read the book. It really wasn't necessary. Once you get into Alex's voice, you can get most of his terminology by context alone.

Echo this exactly. Clockwork represents about the finest use of this device I know of in fiction. And Burgess was right to object to the glossary. I did the same thing, read the book and only looked at the glossary later. The novel is real horrorshow. The glossary is vonny cal.

caw

Jamesaritchie · Apr 1, 2007

Slang

Slang is like dialect and accent in that a little bit adds verisimilitude, too much loses readers. Think of it as cayenne pepper. . .a little bit adds flavor and spice, too much will choke anyone.

I'd suggest reading current writers who place their fiction in the same areas you wish to set your own. If those writers are selling well, do as they do.

While they're seldom set in east London, I love the way Jonathan Gash writes. Just enough slang and dialect to make the books feel real, but not enough to distract.

James D. Macdonald · Apr 1, 2007

1) Know your audience.
2) Don't confuse the reader.
3) Slang is like any spice: a little goes a long way.

Shady Lane · Apr 1, 2007

Just jumping in here to say that Smack, one of the most acclaimed YA novels of the past 20 years, used tons of obscure british slang and included a glossary in the back.

*jumping out*

AllieB · Apr 1, 2007

Ditto the Clockwork Orange suggestion. I never even looked at the glossary; after a few pages you know pretty much what all the "new" words/slang mean.

herdon · Apr 1, 2007

There are a lot of ways to pull of slang or similar dialogue. The key is not to confuse the reader so, unless your primary audience uses that slang and you do not suspect anyone that doesn't use it will read the work, you will need some sort of device to make sure the reader understands. That could be a dictionary in the front/back of the book, or it could be a PoV character that doesn't know the slang (and thus has to figure it out -- giving you a way to explain it to the reader), etc.

Jamesaritchie · Apr 1, 2007

Havlen said:
There are a lot of ways to pull of slang or similar dialogue. The key is not to confuse the reader so, unless your primary audience uses that slang and you do not suspect anyone that doesn't use it will read the work, you will need some sort of device to make sure the reader understands. That could be a dictionary in the front/back of the book, or it could be a PoV character that doesn't know the slang (and thus has to figure it out -- giving you a way to explain it to the reader), etc.

I don't think many readers want to stop reading to look up a word. I doubt many want to read a mini-dictionary before they begin reading, either. I don't think many readers want explanations, either. Either would make me stop reading after about the third word. Talk about interrupting flow.

Context is the key. A reader should be able to tell what a word means without any need to look it up, or without an explanation.

Cat Scratch · Apr 1, 2007

I agree that making it clear in context is the best way to go. Sure, some novels have used glossaries, but nothing takes me out of the universe of a novel faster than having to flip to the back and look something up.

herdon · Apr 1, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
I don't think many readers want to stop reading to look up a word. I doubt many want to read a mini-dictionary before they begin reading, either. I don't think many readers want explanations, either. Either would make me stop reading after about the third word. Talk about interrupting flow.

Context is the key. A reader should be able to tell what a word means without any need to look it up, or without an explanation.

A clockwork orange, which has been mentioned on this thread, is a good example of a work that has a dictionary for this purpose. It can certainly be done in a way that works and there are certainly readers that don't mind a bit of work in thier reading.

blacbird · Apr 1, 2007

Havlen said:
A clockwork orange, which has been mentioned on this thread, is a good example of a work that has a dictionary for this purpose. It can certainly be done in a way that works and there are certainly readers that don't mind a bit of work in thier reading.

As has been previously mentioned, the "glossary" was added by the U.S. publisher, and Anthony Burgess hated it. I agree with Burgess, and find it superfluous. Which exactly makes the point about context being the key to understanding.

caw

Local Slang usuage in dialogue?

sparx

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,

Marlys

Resist. Love. Go outside.

scarletpeaches

Rich

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,

blacbird

rugcat

Lost in the Fog

Ardellis

tortures make-believe people

scarletpeaches

job

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript

TsukiRyoko

Forced into cell phone life

blacbird

Jamesaritchie

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

AllieB

herdon

What's up?

Jamesaritchie

Cat Scratch

The Peacock Next Door

herdon

What's up?

blacbird