Sharing my latest "Ah-ha" moment

WriterInChains · Mar 28, 2007

Last night I went to a reading -- I'd never read any of her books, but something told me I wanted to go -- and I had a cool lightbulb-moment (followed by a "duh" moment, but whatever).

In case it can help anyone else, here it is:

Kim Harrison was talking about her writing process, and she explained how she plots her books (heavily paraphrased): the hard plot (butt-kicking & etc.) is outlined carefully, but the soft plot (emotional, character development, & etc.) she lets grow organically, to have a life of its own.

I've never outlined a piece of fiction in my life, but this just felt big. HUGE. I'm working on a new WIP, and this is just what I needed to hear. In 300 years I probably wouldn't have thought of this (although it makes perfect sense) -- outlining half of your book? Keeping tight control over part of it & letting the rest develop however it will? Now I'm stoked, and in the queue for her first book at the library. And I thought the new chairs at Powell's Bvtn were cool.

Writer2011 · Mar 28, 2007

Sounds like you have a plan well set in place

Good luck with your WIP

Melanie Nilles · Mar 28, 2007

Cool! For you and me--I started doing this long ago.

Melanie

WriterInChains · Mar 28, 2007

Thanks, aspiringwriter & right back atcha! It's going very well so far!

I just wish I had more hands -- so I could work, write CS, & edit TPL all at the same time.

WriterInChains · Mar 28, 2007

Melanie Nilles said:
Cool! For you and me--I started doing this long ago.

Melanie

And it's even worked for you! Cool!

rugcat · Mar 28, 2007

I talked with Kim Harrison last week at a reading in Borderlands Books, an independent SF/F bookstore in San Francisco. A very pleasant woman, but the thing that impressed me most was the dedication to writing as a career that she exhibits--including book tours, publicity, plans for the future, etc.

Also met Peter Beagle there today (The Last Unicorn) who had just dropped by to shop and chat. An icon and a wonderful guy.

Writer2011 · Mar 28, 2007

You are certainly welcome Caren.

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 28, 2007

I enjoy Kim Harrison as an author. However, that doesn't mean what works for her would work for me. If it works for you, great.

WriterInChains · Mar 28, 2007

rugcat -- I got that too. She works such long hours & has so many exciting plans -- and that's not even counting the stories/characters themselves. She's a very energizing speaker, to be sure.

Shadow -- The jury's going to be out on that for at least a year. I'm only a couple thousand words into this WIP.

CaroGirl · Mar 29, 2007

Hi Caren!! That's wonderful. I'm so glad you found something to inspire you. I hope the latest wip goes well. I'm ripping through mine (no outline, though, as usual). I do like the idea of outlining only the hard plot points. Maybe I'll try that too.

Thanks for sharing your epiphany. All the best!!

sfecphory · Mar 29, 2007

That's an excellent lesson in there not being a "right way" and a "wrong way." There are as many ways to approach outlining/not-outlining as there are novelists.

caren1701 said:
Last night I went to a reading -- I'd never read any of her books, but something told me I wanted to go -- and I had a cool lightbulb-moment (followed by a "duh" moment, but whatever).

In case it can help anyone else, here it is:

Kim Harrison was talking about her writing process, and she explained how she plots her books (heavily paraphrased): the hard plot (butt-kicking & etc.) is outlined carefully, but the soft plot (emotional, character development, & etc.) she lets grow organically, to have a life of its own.

I've never outlined a piece of fiction in my life, but this just felt big. HUGE. I'm working on a new WIP, and this is just what I needed to hear. In 300 years I probably wouldn't have thought of this (although it makes perfect sense) -- outlining half of your book? Keeping tight control over part of it & letting the rest develop however it will? Now I'm stoked, and in the queue for her first book at the library. And I thought the new chairs at Powell's Bvtn were cool.

J C Coy · Mar 29, 2007

That is the way I outline and it works for me.

I met J. R. Ward (a very cool lady) at a signing, and she said she uses outlines that run 50 - 60 pages. I thought, holy sheep shit! I could never do that.

Prawn · Mar 29, 2007

I don't do an outline, per se, but I use a scene list. It grows as the book grows, but even at the beginning, there is a skeleton of a story there.

maestrowork · Mar 29, 2007

It's a good ah-ha. I don't really outline, but I do have what I call "guideposts" or "set pieces." They're like must-see destinations on a trip. I don't know how my characters would get there, but they have to eventually get there. So in a way, those set pieces are outlined/planned ahead of time.

It's been working for me so far.

engmajor2005 · Mar 29, 2007

I don't outline, but I always have an idea of where the story should go. Sometimes that's just in my head, sometimes I jot out a note. I doubt I would ever do the "semi-outline" you discovered, but it sounds like perfect sense. Let the "plot," which is contrived anyway seeing that you made it all up, develop artifically, and let the "story" develop naturally.

Watch those ah-ha moments though. They get addictive, and you find yourself needing your smack.

For anyone who is interested, Misery by Stephen King is a book that's just as much about the writing process as it is about madness and survival. You can learn quite a bit from reading it.

WriterInChains · Mar 29, 2007

engmajor2005 said:
Watch those ah-ha moments though. They get addictive, and you find yourself needing your smack.

For anyone who is interested, Misery by Stephen King is a book that's just as much about the writing process as it is about madness and survival. You can learn quite a bit from reading it.

Too late -- I'm already hooked. Luckily, writing gives me enough to keep going.

You're right about Misery, it taught me that a splitting maul beside your bed can make you feel much safer when reading horror stories in the middle of nowhere at night.

WriterInChains · Mar 29, 2007

CaroGirl said:
Hi Caren!! That's wonderful. I'm so glad you found something to inspire you. I hope the latest wip goes well. I'm ripping through mine (no outline, though, as usual). I do like the idea of outlining only the hard plot points. Maybe I'll try that too.

Thanks for sharing your epiphany. All the best!!

Hi Caro!

Thanks, I'm glad yours is going well too. So far, I only have a bullet-list of things that have to happen so the reader won't feel cheated at the end when they find out what's really been going on. This is the first book I'm going into knowing what's supposed to happen with the hard plot instead of the soft plot -- I'm writing backwards (or maybe inside-out?)!

At any rate, it feels like stretching my comfort zone, so no matter what happens that's a good thing.

Have a great day!

~C

scarletpeaches · Mar 29, 2007

I don't think this would work for me at all, purely because a lot of the action depends on the emotional state of the characters. I could say, "I'll have them do X, Y and Z," but if the characters aren't feeling a particular emotion (which I wouldn't have plotted using this method) they wouldn't want to do X, Y and Z. They simply wouldn't be motivated to act in this way.

I don't see how this method could work - I've always believed character is plot and separating action and character development could be dangerous. I've seen it lead to contrived situations that don't seem to depend on what the characters do at all, and 'wooden' characters peopling the book.

jdparadise · Mar 29, 2007

scarletpeaches said:

I don't see how this method could work - I've always believed character is plot and separating action and character development could be dangerous. I've seen it lead to contrived situations that don't seem to depend on what the characters do at all, and 'wooden' characters peopling the book.

Click to expand...

I've done writing very similar to this, and while the concern here is very real and very valid, it -can- be done. The key in doing it is to be aware that the character needs to need to do the things they're doing, on both an emotional and a situational level.

If I'm going to (say) have Alex and Bob in a swordfight at the top of the Tower of Pisa, I have to be aware that I'll need to:

Get them swords
Get them to Italy
Get them past security with the swords
Make them both have reason to be there at the same time, with their swords
Have a plot-and-character-relevant reason for everyone else to be cleared out of the area, or account for them if they're not
Have character-based reasons that would justify their willingness to engage in mortal combat
Have character-based reasons that put them in opposition to one another in the first place

... etc.

If you just say "Swordfight, Pisa!" and let it go at that, yes, definitely the reader's crapometer will be pinged to max. But if you say to yourself that you need to write in such a way as to get them into plot-and-character position to be where they are, it's no different than a full outline or writing seat-of-the-pants, to my mind...

scarletpeaches · Mar 29, 2007

That kinda illustrates my point about not separating character and plot. If you get your characters emotionally ready to do something, the action will follow as a natural consequence of that.

However, if you concentrate on their actions, their emotional lives could appear to be nothing more than tacked-on extras.

Moon Daughter · Mar 29, 2007

That's great! I think it's hard to really outline an entire book, especially before you even write it. Writing half of it, I think, is a good idea because it gives you room to grow other ideas for the mid-ending.

jdparadise · Mar 29, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
That kinda illustrates my point about not separating character and plot. If you get your characters emotionally ready to do something, the action will follow as a natural consequence of that.

However, if you concentrate on their actions, their emotional lives could appear to be nothing more than tacked-on extras.

Oh, definitely. That's why I said your concerns are very valid. Just sayin' that if you pay attention, it can be done

)

scarletpeaches · Mar 29, 2007

Meh. I prefer not bothering and just writing it. *shrug* Pantsers unite!

scarletpeaches · Mar 29, 2007

All of the above illustrations of 'how to do it this way' just seem like ordinary outlining to me anyway.

AllieB · Mar 29, 2007

I agree with scarletpeaches. For me, any story revolves around the character(s) and their journey, their development, their growth. If I don't begin a story knowing where that's going, then I don't have a plot. Outlined events don't mean much unless they're attached to the character's emotional journey.

Sharing my latest "Ah-ha" moment

WriterInChains

Feed my eyes

Writer2011

Melanie Nilles

What're you looking at?

WriterInChains

Feed my eyes

WriterInChains

Feed my eyes

rugcat

Lost in the Fog

Writer2011

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

WriterInChains

Feed my eyes

CaroGirl

Living the dream

sfecphory

J C Coy

Prawn

Writing is finite,revising infinite

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

engmajor2005

WriterInChains

Feed my eyes

WriterInChains

Feed my eyes

scarletpeaches

jdparadise

Talker of Good Games

scarletpeaches

Moon Daughter

jdparadise

Talker of Good Games

scarletpeaches

scarletpeaches

AllieB