Would, could, should

Southern_girl29 · Mar 22, 2007

When I was in a writing group several years ago, a few of the members cautioned against using those words. Sometimes, though, that's all that will work. Is it wrong to use those? They never actually gave a reason why you should, so I'm wondering if they might have had false information.

Also, what about words ending in -ing? A few of the members warned against using those, too. Is it a bad thing to use them? If so, why?

PeeDee · Mar 22, 2007

You should also avoid words with the letters "ly" in them, together or seperately and you shouldn't use any word that can be traced back to a Yiddish origin.

Honestly, there's always some damn rule explaining the horrible, horrible wrongness of using some given type of word. Some words aren't wise to use (adverbs, for example, can weaken the rest of your writing). That doesn't mean you can't use them. It just means you have to pay attention when you DO use them. But since you should be paying attention when you use ALL your words, no problem, right?

The first thing I do when a collective bunch tells me, in hushed and worried tones, how wrong something in writing is, I go out and I write a short story that does it.

DeadlyAccurate · Mar 22, 2007

They're probably referring to passive sentences, like "The ball was falling out of the building." Most of the time, "The ball fell out of the building," is the better sentence. But, if "He was running," is better than "He ran," for the purpose of your story, use the former.

"My time was running out," means something different than "My time ran out."

"He was running down the street, a baseball in hand," doesn't mean the same thing as, "He ran down the street, a baseball in hand."

I've never heard any "would, could, should" rule. I'd probably ignore it if I did hear of one.

scribbler1382 · Mar 23, 2007

If you never used any of the words all the rules recommend at some point you not use, you'd be left with "poofy" and "snapdragon". Good luck.

johnzakour · Mar 23, 2007

Listen to PeeDee he's a wise man.

AllieB · Mar 23, 2007

As far as the -ing words go, I know I use them a lot, and readers have pointed them out to me. I think anything works in moderation, so I just try to be aware of over-using them.

But grammatically, sometimes the -ing doesn't work in a sentence, which is where some writers get confused:

John ran down the street, dragging Jan behind him. (Says that John is running and dragging at the same time, which is probably true.)

John stopped for a cold one at the corner store, popping open the brew and downing it in one huge gulp. (Here, you're saying that John stops, pops, and downs at the same time, which is near-impossible. A better choice would be "John stopped for a cold one at the corner store. He popped open the brew and downed it in one huge gulp.")

That might be what people are referring to when they say "no -ing words."

But scribbler's right: if you followed every "rule" people told you, you'd be left with no words to use and nothing interesting to say.

johnzakour · Mar 23, 2007

AllieB said:
But grammatically, sometimes the -ing doesn't work in a sentence, which is where some writers get confused:

John ran down the street, dragging Jan behind him. (Says that John is running and dragging at the same time, which is probably true.)

John stopped for a cold one at the corner store, popping open the brew and downing it in one huge gulp. (Here, you're saying that John stops, pops, and downs at the same time, which is near-impossible. A better choice would be "John stopped for a cold one at the corner store. He popped open the brew and downed it in one huge gulp.")

Why am I doing these things? Why?

You gotta write it the way it reads best.

Devil Ledbetter · Mar 23, 2007

It's overuse, or use when there is a better alternative, that is the problem.

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

AllieB · Mar 23, 2007

johnzakour said:
Why am I doing these things? Why?

You gotta write it the way it reads best.

<<grin>>

jdparadise · Mar 23, 2007

scribbler1382 said:
If you never used any of the words all the rules recommend at some point you not use, you'd be left with "poofy" and "snapdragon". Good luck.

Bad news, Scribbler. I just heard that the latest Strunk and White recommends against "poofy" as imprecise.

And I hear readers are sick of dragons, so you might just want to use "snap."

Except that violates the no onomotopoeia rule.

In conclusion, I'll say...

AncientEagle · Mar 23, 2007

I believe such rules (should, would, could, and -ing) are dreamed up by people who need something specific to clutch because they are too fearful to trust their ear and eye when it comes to the use of words. My only two rules are: If it sounds wrong, change it till it sounds right. If it's unclear, rewrite it until it's clear.

DeadlyAccurate · Mar 23, 2007

AncientEagle said:
My only two rules are: If it sounds wrong, change it till it sounds right. If it's unclear, rewrite it until it's clear.

Well, that, and "Never use the word 'chortle.'" I mean, really. I don't care if it is an onomatopoeia. Chortle has to be the dumbest-sounding word in the English language.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 23, 2007

Well, you could avoid them completely, but I don't think you should, and I doubt very much that I would.

Seriously, ly words are weak and unnecessary writing in most cases. So are many ing words. When used too often, or when used needlessly, the quality of the writing will suffer.

Could, would, and should are also weak words, and there's probably a stronger way of saying whatever it is you want to say. But when one of these words is the best way to say someting, use it.

There are no words you should avoid altogether. There are, however, words you should use with great care.

How writing sounds is important, but so is what writing means, and the way it says what it means.

Be certain you're writing the best way possible, not the easiest way possible.

ChaosTitan · Mar 23, 2007

Southern_girl29 said:
When I was in a writing group several years ago, a few of the members cautioned against using those words. Sometimes, though, that's all that will work. Is it wrong to use those?

I heard the same thing once, so long ago that I can't recall when or where. There is nothing wrong with "would, could, should." Like any other word, you just have to know how to use it. Your writing group probably thinks that they are imprecise words that suggests the narrator isn't sure about what they're saying. They can also create a passive sentence.

"I could smell the sharp odor of fresh mulch." versus "I smelled the sharp odor of fresh mulch."

In some instances you don't need to use "would, could, should," and the sentence is stronger without it. There are times, however, when it's the only proper word to get your point across.

"Suzie could have reached across the ledge and grabbed him, but she didn't." or "James should have known the answer. He remained strangely silent."

My .02

ETA: James got his post in right before mine.

maestrowork · Mar 23, 2007

Anyone who ever says, "You should NEVER do X, Y, or Z" -- I WOULD ignore them.

There are guidelines and best practices, and but to say "you should never use adverbs"? That's absurd. And "would"? Please. WOULD you just shut up already?

Now, if you misuse them, that's a totally different matter. That goes with grammar, and we need to get that right.

Southern_girl29 · Mar 23, 2007

Thanks everyone. I did notice that by cutting the -ing words, my writing was often tighter. I just couldn't figure out how to get rid of the would, coulds and shoulds.

maestrowork · Mar 23, 2007

-ing words can be evil. Again, it comes to the "misuse" aspect of writing. Many people use it in a wrong way, or in a weak way that makes the prose soft.

"He was eating a sandwich when the bomb went off" -- that's fine.

"He was stopping by the shop to say hello to his wife" -- huh? Wrong. Simple past tense will do.

scribbler1382 · Mar 23, 2007

Guidelines are just that -- GUIDElines.

Unless they're for an agent/publisher, in which case they're gospel. :crazy:

sfecphory · Mar 23, 2007

I can think of times I've removed "could" that helped tighten the writing up...

"He could see an elephant hiding in the tree."

vs.

"He saw an elephant hiding in the tree."

But, in the end, you need to use the words you need, not expect some rules to filter out bad writing for you. Applying every 'writer's rule' to your fiction is akin to putting a nicely prepared meal through a meat-grinder.

rugcat · Mar 23, 2007

DeadlyAccurate said:
Well, that, and "Never use the word 'chortle.'" I mean, really. I don't care if it is an onomatopoeia. Chortle has to be the dumbest-sounding word in the English language.

Well, it was coined by Lewis Carroll for Jabberwocky. He was just having fun.

Niteowl · Mar 23, 2007

Perhaps you could post some examples of the 'would, should, could' sentences that are giving you trouble?

It might be that they can't be written without the FORBIDDEN WORDS! But it might be that your writing group is just pointing out a current weakness of your writing.

AncientEagle · Mar 23, 2007

rugcat said:
Well, it was coined by Lewis Carroll for Jabberwocky. He was just having fun.

No doubt he chortled as he coined it.

thethinker42 · Mar 23, 2007

scribbler1382 said:
If you never used any of the words all the rules recommend at some point you not use, you'd be left with "poofy" and "snapdragon". Good luck.

But "poofy" and "snapdragon" could be construed as purple prose. So, with all the rules applied, a story would look like this:

The end.

thethinker42 · Mar 23, 2007

maestrowork said:
Anyone who ever says, "You should NEVER do X, Y, or Z" -- I WOULD ignore them.

So you're saying I should NEVER listen to anyone who says NEVER do something?

Ok.

*puts Ray on 'ignore'*

Hillgate · Mar 23, 2007

I'm a little concerned because I've just spent the last six years writing a book about a poofy snapdragon called Henry who only speaks in the conditional tense. Is there a self-help manual anyone could recommend to me? Or better still, does anyone feel like writing one?

Would, could, should

Where's my tea, please...?

Absolutely Fazed

Write For You, Edit For The Reader

Dangerous with a Keyboard

Dangerous with a Keyboard

Come on you stranger, you legend,

Talker of Good Games

Old kid, no need to be gentle.

Absolutely Fazed

Around

Fear the Death Ray

Fear the Death Ray

Write For You, Edit For The Reader

Lost in the Fog

Old kid, no need to be gentle.

Abnormal Romance Author

Abnormal Romance Author

On location