Word Count issue

David McAfee · Mar 21, 2007

A well-known and respected agent has asked to see my novel, but made the comment that "56K is a midget of a novel." Honestly, I couldn't think of anything to add to it, which is why it is so short. There's more to be told, for certain, but it's an entirely different story and I didn't fuse the two into one because I thought it would make the novel too episodic.

This particular agent is one of those I would love to land. Should I be concerned? Mitch Albom's novels are all pretty short, too (different type of novel, though).

roach · Mar 21, 2007

If you feel the story is as long as it needs to be I'd suggest letting the story stand as it is and send it to the agent. The agent might have some suggestions on lengthening it, or might tell you that it's fine.

Good luck!

CaroGirl · Mar 21, 2007

I think sometimes a novel is just "done" at 56K and there's nothing you can do about it without messing with the integrity of the novel. However, if this agent rejects it solely based on its length, without giving you the opportunity to extend it through a rewrite, I would seriously consider trying to lengthen it before resubmitting to the next agent.

I have the same problem as you do with the length of my first novel, which I don't think will end up much longer than 60K.

Best of luck with the agent!

maddythemad · Mar 21, 2007

The agent has already requested pages, knowing full-well what the word count is, so I would just go ahead and send it. If the agent decides to offer representation, there is a very good chance s/he will ask you to "beef it up" because 56K is really short for an adult novel. But you don't need to worry about that now.

Just my 2¢

Azure Skye · Mar 21, 2007

maddythemad said:
The agent has already requested pages, knowing full-well what the word count is, so I would just go ahead and send it. If the agent decides to offer representation, there is a very good chance s/he will ask you to "beef it up" because 56K is really short for an adult novel. But you don't need to worry about that now.

Just my 2¢

And maybe the agent will offer suggestions on how and where to beef it up. But yeah, I'd send it for sure.

Good luck.

The_Grand_Duchess · Mar 21, 2007

I'd send it as is. The agent already knows the word count and wants to see it. I agree with what someone else said, sometimes the novel is just done at 56K. Some stories just aren't as long as others.

The Scip · Mar 21, 2007

I agree with what everyone else has already said. If the agents wants to read it then send it as is, he can always ask you to a something to it if need be.

MidnightMuse · Mar 21, 2007

If this agent knows the word count, but has asked to see it, send it! A story is done when a story is done, and no amount of padding will make it any different. Now, if the agent has great ideas, consider them. But if the agent falls in love with the story as is, then it's a 56k finished piece.

Best of luck with this agent, btw!

David McAfee · Mar 21, 2007

Thanks everyone. I'm going to do one last, quick look over the MS (he wants the whole thing) and then off it goes.

Starlightmntn · Mar 21, 2007

I put out a couple thoughts related to this issue on this thread:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57846

Maybe counting differently would help. I really think comparing the old 80 - 120K range for novel to modern computer counts is like mixing apples and oranges. Either that 80 - 120K range has to be reduced, or we need to keep counting by the old method.

David McAfee · Mar 21, 2007

Starlightmntn said:
I put out a couple thoughts related to this issue on this thread:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57846

Maybe counting differently would help. I really think comparing the old 80 - 120K range for novel to modern computer counts is like mixing apples and oranges. Either that 80 - 120K range has to be reduced, or we need to keep counting by the old method.

By the Courier method the book is 70K. Should I start using that word count in my queries? Which one do agents and publishers prefer?

Starlightmntn · Mar 21, 2007

If it were me, I'd go with the courier method, because 70K sounds a lot better than 56K. I've never seen anyone say the courier method is wrong now. If anything, the sentiment seems to be: "don't obsess" and "why bother with the courier method" and "computer counts are close enough."

When you think about it, computer counts give very little information as to how many pages a novel will actually take up. The average word length can be short or long. You can have a lean style (more white space) or wordy style (little white space). The courier method was a way to standardize and give a sense of how much paper would go into a book. Since paper affects the printing costs, it seems very relevant.

I've seen some people argue that the courier method is simply a throwback to typewriters and, therefore, is obsolete. I really don't see it that way at all. The typewriter issue is a font issue. Since you couldn't change fonts very easily on a typewriter and courier was standard, that was what the standardized system was based on. The need for standardization itself, however, remains.

Maprilynne · Mar 21, 2007

Bear in mind that although many agents still request material from you by snail mail, most of them send the MS to editors by e-mail. I would go by the MS Word Count number because how easy is it for an editor to say, "Okay, new manuscript. Hmmm, how long. What the . . . ?"

If he likes it and wants to take it on, he will let you know if you need to raise the count. If he declines it because of word count, he may still offer you some suggestions.

ccarver30 · Mar 22, 2007

What an excellent question! My book is about 56K words too! lol

eric11210 · Mar 22, 2007

I'd be very concerned about using your courier method of counting. Far be it from me to say it, since I'm hardly an expert, but I could easily see an agent looking at the initial query, seeing it's 82,000 words and saying, OK, sounds good.

Then s/he gets your MS in electronic format and finds it's really 60,000 words, go and try to explain why the numbers vary so widely. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling you will have an awfully tough time of it.

Just my two cents on the subject. I know if it were me and I saw that, I'd toss the thing in the garbage without asking questions or offering a chance to explain, just because I'd feel like someone was trying to pull one over on me. But like I said, I'm not an agent, I've never published a novel, so it's just my personal feelings. I could be totally wrong. At the least, you may want to explain in a cover letter how you came up with your word count so you have a fighting chance for them not to think you're trying to pull a fast one. . .

Best of luck,

Eric

Starlightmntn · Mar 22, 2007

I want to stress that using the courier (traditional) method is in no way pulling a fast one. In fact, the formating FAQ in this forum expresses a preference for this method.

What bothers me is that everyone knows that the computer counts are vastly different than the traditional method, yet no one talks in terms of minimum computer count numbers. Counts in the low 50's are going to be a little short using either method. However, comparing a 53K computer count to a 80K traditional method count is just wrong. You're probably 7 - 10K words short, not 27K, the difference between 80 and 53.

PeeDee · Mar 22, 2007

Courier Method, 250/Page Method or COmputer Word Count methods are all fine, but that gets you into quibbling with an agent, and that accomplishes nothing.

"It's 56k. It's a midget novel."

"Au contrare, it's 72k according to the Butler-Yeats Method."

"So?"

"So it's not a midget novel."

...

either send it as-is, or add to it. Even if you don't fuse the other story you have into it, I bet you can find some scenes to add to it. All novels, all stories, are both expandable and collapsible to a certain degree.

eric11210 · Mar 22, 2007

Starlightmntn said:
I want to stress that using the courier (traditional) method is in no way pulling a fast one. In fact, the formating FAQ in this forum expresses a preference for this method.

What bothers me is that everyone knows that the computer counts are vastly different than the traditional method, yet no one talks in terms of minimum computer count numbers. Counts in the low 50's are going to be a little short using either method. However, comparing a 53K computer count to a 80K traditional method count is just wrong. You're probably 7 - 10K words short, not 27K, the difference between 80 and 53.

Like I said, I'm no expert and may be completely wrong. It's just my own gut feeling.

Then again, in my case, I'm not as concerned. My WIP is 82,000 by computer count and 88,000 by the old method. . .so it's not a wildly huge difference. . .which is basically the same as you said it probably would be. . .

Best of luck either way.

Eric

David McAfee · Mar 22, 2007

eric11210 said:
I'd be very concerned about using your courier method of counting. Far be it from me to say it, since I'm hardly an expert, but I could easily see an agent looking at the initial query, seeing it's 82,000 words and saying, OK, sounds good.

Then s/he gets your MS in electronic format and finds it's really 60,000 words, go and try to explain why the numbers vary so widely. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling you will have an awfully tough time of it.

Just my two cents on the subject. I know if it were me and I saw that, I'd toss the thing in the garbage without asking questions or offering a chance to explain, just because I'd feel like someone was trying to pull one over on me. But like I said, I'm not an agent, I've never published a novel, so it's just my personal feelings. I could be totally wrong. At the least, you may want to explain in a cover letter how you came up with your word count so you have a fighting chance for them not to think you're trying to pull a fast one. . .

Best of luck,

Eric

See? That was my thought, as well. Ah, well, I'm just a'gonna leave things as they are. I sent the MS and the agent wrote back, so I know he has it. Just gotta keep my fingers crossed that the story is good enough for him to want it despite the low count (which I'd be happy to bump up if it came to word count being the deal-breaker).

eric11210 · Mar 22, 2007

David McAfee said:
See? That was my thought, as well. Ah, well, I'm just a'gonna leave things as they are. I sent the MS and the agent wrote back, so I know he has it. Just gotta keep my fingers crossed that the story is good enough for him to want it despite the low count (which I'd be happy to bump up if it came to word count being the deal-breaker).

Like I said, you shouldn't take my word for it. I'm unpublished and have yet to submit to an agent. This was based purely on my own gut feelings on the subject. . .

Best of luck.

Eric

Word Count issue

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Azure Skye

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The Scip

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MidnightMuse

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David McAfee

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David McAfee

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PeeDee

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