The phrase -- "Turn of the century"

Lyxdeslic · Mar 19, 2007

Please forgive my apparent ignorance, but I have some questions.

We've all heard the use of the term "turn of the century", no doubt. But, I just realized, I've never researched exactly what it means.

During the twentieth century, if you heard this, it meant when the 1800s ended, and the 1900s began. Duh, right? Neverhteless, did it mean that we were turning from the 1800s, or turning to the 1900s?

I've come to a place in my WIP where I want to use this simple phrase to refer to the 1800s changing to the 1900s, but now that we've recently entered the twenty-first century, I can't simply say "at the turn of the century" because people will be saying, "What century?"

Damn you twenty-first century, you've gone and changed all that I thought I knew.

Also, has anyone else faced this problem in their writing?

scribbler1382 · Mar 19, 2007

It means both. Think of when you turn the last page of a chapter in a book. The turn of the chapter, if you will. You're both leaving the previous chapter and entering the next chapter.

Lyxdeslic · Mar 19, 2007

scribbler1382 said:
It means both. Think of when you turn the last page of a chapter in a book. The turn of the chapter, if you will. You're both leaving the previous chapter and entering the next chapter.

Okay, so under these guidelines, if one were to say "during the turn of the twentieth century", what is being said? See the problem.

I realize that I'm overthinking this too death. The quick fix to my "time naming" issue, as per my original post, would be to say "during the early nineteen hundreds", but I'm still curious how one would perceive the phrase "turn of the twentieth century", for example.

Thoughts?

Athame2010 · Mar 19, 2007

Turn of the Century

Hopefully by this point in your WIP (story) you have determined by some means what year or time frame (era) the story is occuring. That would be the easiest way to figure out which "turn . . . " you are refering to?
just a thought from a novice.
Cheers
Corinna

scribbler1382 · Mar 19, 2007

Lyxdeslic said:
Okay, so under these guidelines, if one were to say "during the turn of the twentieth century", what is being said? See the problem.

I realize that I'm overthinking this too death. The quick fix to my "time naming" issue, as per my original post, would be to say "during the early nineteen hundreds, but I'm still curious how one would perceive the phrase "turn of the twentieth century", for example.

Thoughts?

Personally, I perceive "turn of the century" as being a moment. An infinitesimal slice of time between the previous century and the next century. I don't think you can have a "during" there. (To go back to my chapter analogy, there's never a time when you're in both chapters. It's either or.) I'd either say "after the turn of the century" or "before the turn of the century".

But that's just me.

Lyxdeslic · Mar 19, 2007

Argghh! Thanks...and all...but to be more specific, in my WIP it is just one simple reference to a building that was built during the turn of the century, i.e., during the early 1900s.

Again, the simple fix is to simply say it was built during the early 1900s, but I was just curious about peoples' input as to the term "turn of the century", now that another century has turned.

Scribbler, you snuck your post in before mine. My comment here was intended for Athame, just to be clear.

scribbler1382 · Mar 19, 2007

If you can't just say "in the early 1900's" then I'd say "at the turn of the century".

Lyxdeslic · Mar 19, 2007

Thanks, Scrib. Also, pllease note the edit I made to the last paragraph of my previous post.

Yeah, I know, I should just say (and I have) "during the early 1900s", but I thought, perhaps, there was a definitive answer to my original question.

Just thought this was a "semi-interesting" topic for discussion.

Thanks again.

Scribhneoir · Mar 19, 2007

To me, "turn of the century" connotes the nineteenth century turning into the twentieth, mainly, I think, because the focus on the entry into the twenty-first century was on the "turn of the millennium" and the whole Y2K kerfuffle.

However, if you're concerned about confusing people, I'd go with using "early 1900s" or even an exact year, such as "the building was built in 1905" or whatever.

Lyxdeslic · Mar 20, 2007

Scribhneoir said:
To me, "turn of the century" connotes the nineteenth century turning into the twentieth, mainly, I think, because the focus on the entry into the twenty-first century was on the "turn of the millennium" and the whole Y2K kerfuffle.

However, if you're concerned about confusing people, I'd go with using "early 1900s" or even an exact year, such as "the building was built in 1905" or whatever.

Interesting point of view, Scrib; I hadn't even thought of that (millennia focus).

Thanks

AllieB · Mar 20, 2007

I think you have to define "turn of the century." If you can't tell from the context which century(ies) you're talking about, that is.

Toothpaste · Mar 20, 2007

"turn of the century" usually means the time period you are writing about, that is to say when the 1800's turned into the 1900's. I don't think you would have a problem just saying that. But if you are really worried what others think, why not at the "turn of the twentieth century".

Cath · Mar 20, 2007

scribbler1382 said:
Personally, I perceive "turn of the century" as being a moment. An infinitesimal slice of time between the previous century and the next century. I don't think you can have a "during" there. (To go back to my chapter analogy, there's never a time when you're in both chapters. It's either or.) I'd either say "after the turn of the century" or "before the turn of the century".

I agree - this is how I use it.

PeeDee · Mar 20, 2007

People refer to the "turn of the century" for a few years before and after the actual turn of the century. It's rarely used as a casual way to date a time period and is used more broadly in historic terms. "But at the turn of the century, the war on terror took a turn for the worse." For example.

Since I assume at some point in your text, you've told us what year your story is set in (or at least, the vicinity) then if you use the phrase "turn of the century," we're going to assume it's 1800s into 1900s.

alleycat · Mar 20, 2007

"the dawn(ing) of the twentieth-century"?

PeeDee · Mar 20, 2007

I'd take them to mean the same thing.

scribbler1382 · Mar 20, 2007

<pinky at corner of mouth> "A long frickin' time agoooo..."

Lyxdeslic · Mar 20, 2007

Okay, so I guess what it all boils down to is that -- there's no definitive answer to the question:

What would I be saying if I were to say "at the turn of the twentieth century"? Does that statement say "going from nineteenth to twentieth, or twentieth to twenty-first"?

PeeDee · Mar 20, 2007

I think that using the phrase WITH a time period actually makes it confusing. Like I said, if I've previously known that the year is 1898, and then you refer to "the turn of the century," I know which century is turning into which.

But by saying "at the turn of the twentieth century" that makes it more confusing.

Why not say "at the dawn of the twentieth century," or something similar?

Judg · Mar 20, 2007

scribbler1382 said:
Personally, I perceive "turn of the century" as being a moment. An infinitesimal slice of time between the previous century and the next century. I don't think you can have a "during" there. (To go back to my chapter analogy, there's never a time when you're in both chapters. It's either or.) I'd either say "after the turn of the century" or "before the turn of the century".

But that's just me.

Yup, it's just you.

Turn-of-the-century is even used as an adjective to describe that era. I think Lyx has a very good point, and I suspect that the term will gradually shift to mean the turn of the century we just experienced.

Lyx, I haven't had to write around this problem yet, but I have thought about it. My personal solution is to avoid the term altogether until the new definition has gelled, which it almost certainly will do in favour of the most recent occurrence, leaving the old definition to die. In the meanwhile, I think it's going to be a bit of a confusing term unless the context makes it very clear.

Cath · Mar 20, 2007

scribbler1382 said:
But that's just me.

Judg said:
Yup, it's just you.

**AHEM**

Cath said:
I agree - this is how I use it.

scribbler1382 · Mar 20, 2007

According to WordNet, it actually means 10 years before or after any century change. Has nothing to do with a particular one. But since as a reader I wouldn't have grokked that, I'm sticking with my assumed definition. So there. :tongue

Judg · Mar 20, 2007

OK, so it's just you and Cath...

OK, all together now, stick your tongues out at Judg! I'm tough, I can take it.

Lyxdeslic · Mar 20, 2007

Judg said:
Yup, it's just you.

Turn-of-the-century is even used as an adjective to describe that era. I think Lyx has a very good point, and I suspect that the term will gradually shift to mean the turn of the century we just experienced.

Lyx, I haven't had to write around this problem yet, but I have thought about it. My personal solution is to avoid the term altogether until the new definition has gelled, which it almost certainly will do in favour of the most recent occurrence, leaving the old definition to die. In the meanwhile, I think it's going to be a bit of a confusing term unless the context makes it very clear.

Thanks Judg. It's nice to see someone relates to the point I was attempting to make initially. I'm pretty certain that we all used this term last century (that makes us sound like dinosaurs) when referring to the latter 1800s/early 1900s. So, my point was...hmmn, we can't really do so as freely now.

veinglory · Mar 20, 2007

That's the turn of the last century, c.f. the turn of this century. So I guess 1800 is the turn of the century before last--but I don't see that catching on as a phrase.

The phrase -- "Turn of the century"

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