A question of Method

I personally can't begin anywhere but the beginning, if that makes sense.

I get the first scene in my mind, I see the characters that drive that first scene, and then I go from there in an attempt to (1) shape those characters and (2) keep the reader turning the page.

Everything else happens organically, on the fly, up to and including the climax.

(Note, and this is an important note I think: Before I began my novel, I did have three or four major plot points. I let the narrative build up to those plot points -- you could also call them "scenes" -- and then I took the fall-out from each of those points and had my characters react to that. Then I moved on toward another point.

That really worked, I think, considering my agent and every editor I talked to -- including the one who bought the book -- mentioned those plot points as the high points of the novel. Those were the only things that didn't happen "organically" as I was writing the text; they came to me beforehand and I moved my characters toward them.)

By and large, there are two primary kinds of novelists. The first type is the "plotter," who has to chart out the basic elements of the plot, the characters and the flow of the book before a single word is typed. I'm a plotter. Plotters tend to spend a lot more time in the "pre-writing" phase, taking notes, doing research and generally staring at the walls. But once it's all plotted, the book falls together really quickly and seldom needs much more than one or two edit passes. I don't do any edits at all. I write from beginning to end and then it's done.

The second type is what is generally called a "pantser." This is short for "seat of your pants" and is stream of consciousness writing. In other words, it's your first example, where the writer learns the story just as the reader would. Often this entails multiple drafts to flesh out subplots and character traits because you're discovering them as they occur. Sometimes, that's fine. Other times, not so much. My co-author is a pantser. Her first draft (of a 100K novel) is usually only 70K. Each subsequent editing pass once the story is told adds layers, from descriptions, to beefing up action, and adding in "hints" of later events to tie the plot together. Pantsers also have to fight against what Cie and I call "primrose path syndrome" where a subplot gets away from you and NEVER ties back into the plot . . . so it has to be eliminated all together.

Neither is bad, and I don't know that you can choose which type of novelist you'll end up becoming. You can certainly try each of them and see which one feels more natural. The more natural a style feels, the better you'll write.

I'd also warn you that short story writing is VERY different than novels. A novel isn't just a long short story. It has a very different flow. Remember that subplots are your friends. They're not something you get much of a chance to use in short stories and the braiding of them back into the main plot is something that has to be learned.

Hope that helps.

Oh, I so want to be a plotter! Alas, I'm a pantser. Can one become a plotter??

I tried to plot out my last WIP. But it all got away from me... and even after I did the whole extensive outline thing, I ended up scrapping it 2/3 of the way in and starting at a whole different point, with a whole new protag (same world, just shifted around a lot).

I've run up against every pantser problem there is, and it's SO frustrating. I hate spending time on something I ultimately end up scrapping, even though I know the writing of the scrapped portions has helped me understand my characters and my world better.

I want to plot, but the left side of my brain refuses to cooperate, and then my right side plugs its ears up and goes, "I'm not liiiisteniiiiiing.... la la la!"... and off my characters go, doing what they damned well please.

Sigh.

I'm somewhere inbetween. Not really a plotter, not completely a pantser. Maybe more of a panties and bra type of writer. I first have to "see" new characters, then a situation that will dramatically affect their lives, then know that I can make them flesh and bone.

I don't take notes or write down plot points or the like. I do sit down and start from the very first sentence of the very first chapter and progress in a forward motion - never skipping ahead or even noting something for the future. But I have to possess an understanding of the ending.

It's all the middle bits that I pants. Subplots and character tidbits are flung out as I go, keeping the plot as a whole in mind so as to make sure they fit properly.

We all work differently, and so will you. But yes, novels are vastly different in many respects than a short. I've never managed to do a short, myself.

Lately I am both plotter and pantser. Two of my novels were completely plotted out from beginning to end, which gave me a great frame to work with. Even as I wrote the plotted novels, plot points changed, characters came and went, and subplots altered themselves. But the ending remained mostly intact, and I liked having a destination in mind.

My WIP has been an experiment, and quite successful. I started with the characters (mostly names and special abilities) and a situation and simply started writing. I had a vague notion of the end, and I'm still on the path to it. But I have found that I am more excited about writing the WIP, because I usually only know what happens a scene or two ahead of my current point. I want to know what happens next. It's worked well, because I have 77k written in nine weeks.

I have no idea if I'll write the next novel this way, or go back to my old plotter ways. I suppose I'll have to wait and see if the story tells itself to me right away (as it does when I plot), or shows up in drips and drabs over time (pants).

As others have said, everyone works different when it comes to novels, and even after completing six, I'm still figuring out what works best for me.

I have ideas floating around in my mind of things that should happen throughout the novel and beyond. I come from an RPG background and there I learn to first come up with the big plot points and then go into the little things later on.

It also helps me to have an idea of what will happen beyond the novel that I'm currently writing, because this gives me the bounderies within which the current novel needs to stay. For instance, when I know a certain character will be kidnapped in the second novel, I won't do that in the first novel.

I do write my novel front to back in the proper order though, just in case I figure something out while writing the details and need to change one of the main plot points.

I am happy to hear that so many of you wear pants.

I don't plot everything out, but I have a pretty good idea of the end of the story when I begin (A kills B, or X is tried for murder and is aquitted).

Cathy C said:

My co-author is a pantser. Her first draft (of a 100K novel) is usually only 70K. Each subsequent editing pass once the story is told adds layers, from descriptions, to beefing up action, and adding in "hints" of later events to tie the plot together.

Click to expand...

I'm undeniably a pantser, but I tend in the opposite direction. I often have to prune a first draft pretty ruthlessly, because I let it sprawl all over and then have to go back and take out everything that's irrelevant. It's sort of like doing the pre-writing within the draft, I think. Backstory goes in, backstory comes out. Scenes later get replaced with sentences.

In reference to the OP, I rarely start at the beginning. Usually a scene occurs to me, and that scene fits somewhere in the middle of a novel. For short stories, it's more often a premise. Regardless of what I'm working on, I skip around a lot and then have to stitch madly to finish a draft. I've tried to work in a more organized fashion, but it always falls apart and I revert. I think I just have to do it this way, or nothing gets done at all.

I don't mind it much. It used to worry me, because I had this idea that you weren't supposed to write that way. But I finish things, I'm usually pretty happy with them, and I don't really see a way to change at this point--I've been using this exact same process since I was eleven and writing terrible post-apocalyptica. While my tastes have admittedly changed, my method never does, no matter how much I might occasionally wish otherwise

Cathy C said:

The second type is what is generally called a "pantser."

Click to expand...

When I first saw that sentence, I thought you were referring to a kind of author who basically goes up to the main character, "pantses" them (yanks down their drawers), and writes about whatever happens next. A humorous version of Uncle Jim's "put your MC in a tree/throw rocks at him/get him down"....effectively "Pull your MC's pants down/throw rocks at him/let him pull his pants up."

LOL Sorry...I've had waaaaaaay too much sugar today...

thethinker42 said:

....effectively "Pull your MC's pants down/throw rocks at him/let him pull his pants up."

Click to expand...

I'm using this from now on.

Crap, the mental picture of me doing that to my current MC got me all hot.

I'm giggling, but for all the wrong reasons!

MidnightMuse said:

Crap, the mental picture of me doing that to my current MC got me all hot.

I'm giggling, but for all the wrong reasons!

Click to expand...

For me, it depends on the project. Some go better beginning to end, others amalgamate from scenes. I can't see any reason to get hung up on one method or the other. If a particular scene or situation comes up that might not be in the chronological order I'm working on, I'll often break away and write that for later inclusion. If I don't do that, I often lose it.

caw

I am definitley a panster.

I start out with a hint of a scene and no clue where I'm going ,and then from there I try to see a few chapters ahead from where I am, so at least I have some sense of where I'm going. I also have a seperate word document called "quotes" where I copy down snippets of dialouge that I think I'll use in later scenes, usually little melodramatic exchanges that can an entire scene. They're almost never used in the flesh, but they at least allow some sort of hint of where I'm going.

Panster here.

I have a broad idea of my characters. But they develop as I write.
In my current WIP, I have a plot in my head, but the ending has not been worked out. I hope to see where I am going as the characters develop.

The most important thing for me is voice, after plot etc. In my 2nd WIP i have,nt got the voice right. So I am thinking of starting the rewrite immediately after 5000 words.

I think I'm a little of both. I don't plan out the entire novel--just the first 150 pages. On earlier project, we just started writing without really knowing where the book was going--and spent more than two years revising to fix all the problems that caused. All of the problems were in the first 150 pages, where the story was being set up. Everything after that can be seat of the pants, but the first 150 pages needs to be a solid foundation from which to start the story.

Start at the beginning and tell the story in chronological order. Avoid flashbacks and backstory as much as possible.

There's got to be a psychological reason why this subject pops up about once a week. Got to be.

I don't care for the term "pantser," but don't have anything in particular to use in place of it. Maybe the first part of the phrase: fly by the seat of your pants.

I fly. Don't outline.

I'm not anti-outline, it just doesn't work for me.

And probably because I've worked that way a long time, I seldom find myself in plot dead-ends or with too many loose threads dangling when I have a completed draft.

Usually revise once, minor stuff, for the editor.

Really must be a reason why this keeps popping up.

I start at the beginning and keep going until I reach the end. I never bother with an outline because writing an outline means I'm not spending my time writing the book.

It varies wildly.

I get a denouement, & wonder what happened to cause it.

I get a crisis, & wonder what surrounds it.

I get an intro, & wonder what happens after.

Sometimes it's as little as an interesting statement or exchange.

I always know my ending ahead of time as well as the connecting scenes that will get me from begining to ending--my road map.

Funny thing is, I always discover new things, new characters, new scenes on the way to the finish line. That makes me go back and change things--maybe plant some info that will be relevant later--and the whole story evolves. And I never finish with the ending I intended to use. My point--don't be afraid to change things up if it makes your story work better. The ending for me is just a destination I'm striving for, never taking a straight line towards it, and when I get close to it, I find another ending that makes more sense or satisfies my new set of circumstances better.

It's like planning on going to Miami, but along the way circumstances demand you arrive at Lauderdale instead, and you decide you don't need Miami afterall. You're still within the same state, have the same weather, but they're obviously different experiences. To take this analogy off the deep-end, if you plan on going to Miami (metaphorically speaking), but end up in Saskachewan or Omaha... you may have a problem, or a completely different story. This may or may not be a good thing.

Hope this helps.

I'm all over the place. Mostly, I just start at the beginning with some characters and see what they want to do and where they take me. It's not completely blind, usually by the time I'm writing page 3, I know what'll happen in four chapter's time and I'm starting to get an inkling of the story's "tone" and feel and what I want to say, and where I'll probably end. I tend to have stories build themselves whole in my mind fairly quickly.

But sometimes, I don't. Sometimes, I have to use outlines and write slowly because I know the story, but don't know the specifics comfortably enough to write them.

Sometimes, I don't know anything. I have a short story where a man -- who is not quite a man -- grins to our hero and says "Me? I write people stories," and then very bad things happen. I've been quietly writing it a few words at a time, waiting to see what that means.

I think it's a blast to have it keep changing.