Plagiarizer: Would you tell?

Cat Scratch · Mar 12, 2007

Just wondering what others would have done in this situation. You win a writing contest. You attend a banquet to accept the prize. You meet and dine with the second and third place winners, as well as the judge. Second and third place winners do not seem to get along so swimmingly. Post-dinner, third-place winner confesses (only to you) to know second place winner, who was recently kicked out of a graduate writing program at the University for plagiarism. He was discovered to have stolen a number of stories turned in as classroom assignments, as well as a few items that were published in their literary magazine. There is no reason to assume it stopped there, and it’s quite possible second-place winner won his prize (and cash) with an unoriginal story. However, there is also no definitive evidence that the story for this particular contest was copied, as publication was not part of the award, so nobody but the judge and the contestant read his story.

Would you have alerted the judge? You already beat this person for first prize, so it would not have been seen as sour grapes. But you learned this second-hand, and have no way of knowing if the third-place winner (who in all other ways seemed like a cool, stand-up guy) had his own sour-grapes agenda. Or, for that matter, if the second-place winner didn’t win, for once, on his own merit.

alleycat · Mar 12, 2007

Tough call, but if that's all I had to go on, I would just keep my mouth shut.

Of course, if you found out later that he did indeed steal his entry, then the contest people should be told.

Elodie-Caroline · Mar 12, 2007

I'd look at it like this; that the third place winner was jealous that he came third place instead of second. If he believed his story, he would have told the judges himself, whereas, it seems to me that he was lining up the bullets and waiting for you to fire them.

Elodie

alleycat · Mar 12, 2007

Elodie-Caroline said:
I'd look at it like this; that the third place winner was jealous that he came third place instead of second. If he believed his story, he would have told the judges himself, whereas, it seems to me that he was lining up the bullets and waiting for you to fire them.

Good point.

eldragon · Mar 12, 2007

You can't tell something you don't know for sure, plus you have no stake in it. Even if you did have a stake in it, you'd look malicious ratting on the "writer,"

Unforunately, you might have to wait for karma to catch up to him, but in today's world where the worst examples of human character are rewarded with fame and fortune for misbehaving, and the noble ones are passed over, it might be a long time before fate gets him, if it ever does.

johnzakour · Mar 12, 2007

I vote for being quiet and letting karma figure it out.

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 12, 2007

Yeah, that's tough.

I think that's what anonymous notes were made for.

Angelinity · Mar 12, 2007

i wouldn't rat, and would not tell anyone else (except my closest freinds, maybe). but my personal curiosity would absolutely demand to be satisfied...

so i would shimmy up to the 'accused' and start a conversation about our stories (after congratulating him/her, of course) -- how they came about, where were the characters born, how long it took to write, etc... then watch the body language. i'm pretty sure that by the end of the conversation i would have an idea (for myself) whether or not he actually wrote the piece.

spike · Mar 12, 2007

Quite honestly, why didn't the 3rd place writer report the second place writer? He/she seems to have intimate knowledge of it, whereas with you it would be gossip.

Sounds like a setup to me.

Bartholomew · Mar 12, 2007

I wouldn't be surprised if the third-place person tells a similar story about the first-place person.

Marlys · Mar 12, 2007

Well, whatever the motives of the third-place winner, my curiosity would be roused. I'd tell both the other winners that I'd love to swap stories with them so all three winners can read each other's. Then I would hit Google and see if anything comes up. But no, there's no reason to tell anyone unless you can build a case--I agree that it's just gossip at this point.

Pagey's_Girl · Mar 12, 2007

It would pique my curiosity, but without some kind of proof, I don't think I'd say anything. Sooner or later, if the person is stealing other people's work, it's going to come back to bite them.

Even though I'd placed higher then the other person, I still think it might look dicey if I sad anything directly - so if I did find out something unpleasant, I would tip the appropriate people off anonymously.

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 12, 2007

Angelinity said:
i wouldn't rat...

Personally, I think this is one of the problems with the world. Everyone turning their back on problems and not confronting them, thinking it either doesn't concern them or believing it's being a "squealer" or a "snitch" if you do tell the authorities.

I would hope that if it had been my stories that had been plagiarized in this manner that someone would have the courage to say something.

PeeDee · Mar 12, 2007

I would kill them both, and then assume their identities on the weekends.

Cav Guy · Mar 12, 2007

I find it interesting that writers seem unconcerned with plagiarism. I guess I fall into Shadow_Ferret's camp on this one. You personally may not have a stake in it now, but how would you feel if this person stole some of your work and then passed it off as theirs?

I'd look into it, and if proof could be obtained I'd make it known to the proper people.

PeeDee · Mar 12, 2007

Cav Guy said:
I find it interesting that writers seem unconcerned with plagiarism. I guess I fall into Shadow_Ferret's camp on this one. You personally may not have a stake in it now, but how would you feel if this person stole some of your work and then passed it off as theirs?

I'd look into it, and if proof could be obtained I'd make it known to the proper people.

We had another big ugly thread on the topic of whether or not writers are concerned about plagiarism.

With a case like this, my natural vim and vigor on the matter of plagiarism doesn't hold up. If it were a standard plagiarism thing, I'd fall on them like a ton of rectangular building things.

But this is coming down the grape vine. Third places thinks second place may possibly have cheated, so third place tells first place. You have no evidence, no proof. Nothing but the word of third place, and as has been pointed out above, if third place had evidence, third place would tell the judges himself.

The Lady · Mar 12, 2007

You've only got say so to go on. You have no idea how much of the story is true. You should maybe encourage the third place guy to inform the prize givers of the second placed person's past history of plagerizism, but other than that, you're only running with tales.

If you are truly bothered, Google some of the relevant names and see what the Internet throws up.

And I wouldn't inform anonymously either. That's something horrible to do to a person, especially as you would only be acting on the say so of somebody you just met. I know, if I was a judge and I got an anonymous tip off, I'd throw it in the bin. (So maybe try signing it with a false name)

Though I liked the idea of trying to get your hands on that story.

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 12, 2007

PeeDee said:
But this is coming down the grape vine. Third places thinks second place may possibly have cheated, so third place tells first place. You have no evidence, no proof. Nothing but the word of third place, and as has been pointed out above, if third place had evidence, third place would tell the judges himself.

Right, that's why I said drop an anonymous note, something like, "I heard so-and-so was kicked out of a graduate writing program at such-and-such university for plagiarism."

The judges aren't going to act on it unless they verify it, which strikes me as a simple phone call to the University. If it turned out to be a false claim, no harm no foul. If however, it's true... well, I think I'd sleep better at night knowing I did something.

PeeDee said:
We had another big ugly thread on the topic of whether or not writers are concerned about plagiarism.

We did? And I missed it? Darn. I love big ugly threads.

PeeDee · Mar 12, 2007

Shadow_Ferret said:
Right, that's why I said drop an anonymous note, something like, "I heard so-and-so was kicked out of a graduate writing program at such-and-such university for plagiarism."

The judges aren't going to act on it unless they verify it, which strikes me as a simple phone call to the University. If it turned out to be a false claim, no harm no foul. If however, it's true... well, I think I'd sleep better at night knowing I did something.

We did? And I missed it? Darn. I love big ugly threads.

Phrased like that, I agree that an anonymous note wouldn't hurt, since it is just a call to the University. If there's a way to do something about it, then I'm all for going after plagarists. I've got no love for 'em.

Azure Skye · Mar 12, 2007

Accusing someone based on hearsay could backfire on you. If the 3rd place winner was really that concerned then he could have gone to the judges himself or could have done it anonymously. I say keep quiet. It's not really your place or even his place to point these things out.

Rolling Thunder · Mar 12, 2007

No, no note. Think about it. No solid proof, only hearsay. Gossip. Hyperbole. Everyone knows what it's like to be targeted by all of these. Perpetuating a rumor into action won't help the situation. Would you want someone to muddy your name for these reasons and then have to prove your innocence? All based on a whisper from a stranger?

If you dig and find solid proof, then have at it. Until then, I'd remain silent.

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 12, 2007

Rllgthunder said:
No, no note. Think about it. No solid proof, only hearsay. Gossip. Hyperbole. Everyone knows what it's like to be targeted by all of these. Perpetuating a rumor into action won't help the situation. Would you want someone to muddy your name for these reasons and then have to prove your innocence? All based on a whisper from a stranger?

If you dig and find solid proof, then have at it. Until then, I'd remain silent.

It's only hearsay until they make that phone call to the university. And no, I wouldn't want my name sullied like this, but I WOULD want my work protected like this if I was the one plagiarized.

spike · Mar 12, 2007

Shadow_Ferret said:
Right, that's why I said drop an anonymous note, something like, "I heard so-and-so was kicked out of a graduate writing program at such-and-such university for plagiarism."

The judges aren't going to act on it unless they verify it, which strikes me as a simple phone call to the University. If it turned out to be a false claim, no harm no foul. If however, it's true... well, I think I'd sleep better at night knowing I did something.

We did? And I missed it? Darn. I love big ugly threads.

I still say that is gossip. Now if I knew this for a fact, my answer would be the opposite.

I would definitely ask 3rd place if he had proof. And if he had proof, why didn't he report it?

And what if the judges didn't call the University, but they believed and spread the rumor?

How would you feel if you were falsly accused. Maybe the person was put out of grad school for some other reason? Like owing a bunch of money, or something else not related to writing.

And the way people litigate, don't be surprised if the university gave a non-answer.

Gossip is an ugly thing. I try to make it die with me.

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 12, 2007

spike said:
And what if the judges didn't call the University, but they believed and spread the rumor?

Actually, you're right. I was assuming they had integrity. But they could just be petty little people like the 3rd place finisher.

This is one of those areas where I wouldn't feel good no matter what my decision was. Either I was letting a plagiarist get away with it or I was purpetuating gossip.

I'm never happy with the "do nothing" response.

Rolling Thunder · Mar 12, 2007

There was a big stink in the news some time ago about a young lady having her book published until it was discovered she had plagiarized some of the passages she wrote. Once it's in print, it's hard to escape the truth.

Plagiarizer: Would you tell?

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