For the love of Betas

scribbler1382 · Mar 11, 2007

Just wondering, when you guys prepare something for your Beta readers, what format do you use? We all know what's required during submissions (right? Right?), and everyone seems to have their own personal likes and dislikes of format, font, etc. while they're writing, but what about for the betas? Do you send them manuscript format, galley format, make little booklets, etc.?

maestrowork · Mar 11, 2007

PDFs.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 11, 2007

Beta

Never have liked or believed in beta readers.

PeeDee · Mar 11, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
Never have liked or believed in beta readers.

Same here.

The most I do is occasionally let a friend read whatever it is. And even then, I don't ask questions, I'm just curious if they enjoy it or not.

But if I were, hypothetically, doing beta readers, then I'd probably just go with whatever format works for 'em. .RTF, .DOC, or .PDF. Whatever works.

Sassenach · Mar 11, 2007

Add me to the "no betas" club.

maestrowork · Mar 11, 2007

Interesting. Why no betas? Don't you want any test audiences?

For me, I have a small group of betas -- fewer than five, who I really trust to give me honest, unbiased opinions as readers.

PeeDee · Mar 11, 2007

maestrowork said:
Interesting. Why no betas? Don't you want any test audiences?

For me, I have a small group of betas -- fewer than five, who I really trust to give me honest, unbiased opinions as readers.

I have no particular reason for it. Although the more I think about it, the more I think it's because I spent a lot of years writing serials. Mostly, you write it, you make it as good as you can the first time (which is why the first draft is generally the strongest, for my stuff) and then you get it out there because you're probably over deadline anyway.

"Sending to betas" would have fallen into the category of "let it sit in a drawer for a week." I don't do that either.

There's nothing wrong with either item, I just don't do 'em. They never equated into how I write.

ChaosTitan · Mar 11, 2007

Betas are invaluable to some writers. I know that my lovely betas always catch things I miss, or note a section that needs more of something (be it clarity, emotion, more action, whatever). All things that tighten a story and make it better. Some people don't see the need for betas and that's fine. We could go round and round, same as the whole outline vs. non-outline debate.

But to answer the OP's question, I send the story in standard manuscript format. Double spaced, proper chapter headings, in whatever file type they prefer (usually a Word .doc).

PeeDee · Mar 11, 2007

chaostitan said:
Betas are invaluable to some writers. I know that my lovely betas always catch things I miss, or note a section that needs more of something (be it clarity, emotion, more action, whatever). All things that tighten a story and make it better. Some people don't see the need for betas and that's fine. We could go round and round, same as the whole outline vs. non-outline debate.

I expect we probably could, but I hope we won't.

Betas: Use 'em if you need 'em.

ChaosTitan · Mar 11, 2007

PeeDee said:
I expect we probably could, but I hope we won't.

Betas: Use 'em if you need 'em.

Precisely.

ORION · Mar 11, 2007

James you may not believe in them but they exist...I have seen them!

PeeDee · Mar 11, 2007

ORION said:
James you may not believe in them but they exist...I have seen them!

They keep stealing teeth from under my pillow.

At least, I think that's them.

johnzakour · Mar 11, 2007

Add me to the no betas club too.

I'm a big believer that if I like it, my publishers will like it and so will my readers.

(I do use a proof reader though, because well, my English ain't sometimes strong as I'd want it too bee.)

scribbler1382 · Mar 11, 2007

Hmm...interesting responses. Not what I expected. I've never used betas for more than short passages, but was planning to change that. Now I'm not so sure.

BlueBadger · Mar 11, 2007

I like having one or two trusted betas. I like to see how my story is (mis)interpreted through a different set of eyes.

Too many can spoil the broth, though. Everyone's going to get a different meaning from paragraph A, and someone's going to hate paragraph B while someone else loves it. Betas are a great way to find out how your story will go over in general, but they can also confuse the hell out of you.

maestrowork · Mar 11, 2007

johnzakour said:
Add me to the no betas club too.

I'm a big believer that if I like it, my publishers will like it and so will my readers.

The trouble is, you may be wrong. But of course, you won't think you're wrong.

I've learned the hard way that I COULD be wrong, and my betas saved my ass a couple times and I really did make the book much better, at one time even cut out 15,000 words. At first I didn't want to believe them -- I thought I was right and they were wrong -- and one beta actually didn't really "have a problem" with the beginning, but they made me realize my beginning didn't belong there, and I cut it. My betas were invaluable to me.

johnzakour · Mar 11, 2007

maestrowork said:
The trouble is, you may be wrong. But of course, you won't think you're wrong.

How could I be wrong concerning if I like something or not? There's no right or wrong, I either like it or don't.

I figure if I like it my most of my regular readers will like it also.

I know I only have about 15-20K regular readers but they seem happy with me. It's enough to keep getting me book deals so I'm pleased.

So why complicate matters by throwing more opinions in the mix? I've got two novels, two YAs and a humor book coming over next 20 months (plus I do a daily comic strip, ghost write for a "reality" TV show and I have a movie coming). I have enough trouble staying on deadline as it. Part of the reason why I quit working for a big University is that I got tired of doing everything by committee. I like holding my own fate in my own hands.

Just to be clear though, I have nothing against beta readers. Heck, some of my best friends are beta readers. Double Heck, I've even been a beta reader for people.

SC Harrison · Mar 11, 2007

chaostitan said:
Betas are invaluable to some writers. I know that my lovely betas always catch things I miss, or note a section that needs more of something (be it clarity, emotion, more action, whatever). All things that tighten a story and make it better. Some people don't see the need for betas and that's fine. We could go round and round, same as the whole outline vs. non-outline debate.

But to answer the OP's question, I send the story in standard manuscript format. Double spaced, proper chapter headings, in whatever file type they prefer (usually a Word .doc).

Oh my God.

You should have said, "Some of my lovely Betas..."

I totally flaked, Kelly. I promise I'll give you some feedback very soon.

jodiodi · Mar 11, 2007

I just used a beta for the first time in the 'find a beta' thread. I'd never used one before. I got some good feedback, mainly because I had looked at the ms for so long, I could no longer see it objectively. I could use a proofreader--for the same reason. As far as, does the audience like the story, I'm of the crowd that says if I like it, that's good enough for me.

TrainofThought · Mar 11, 2007

I gave up on unknown betas asking someone I trust and believe will provide me with great feedback. My WIP is in Word to be edited and regular submission format.

scarletpeaches · Mar 11, 2007

If your beta has a computer and an email address then think of the paper you'll save - and MS Word's comment feature is a godsend here!

I've never used a beta, but I might...maybe. I can see the point some make about not needing them - if you have a command of the English language and know what you're on about, then fair enough...but a lot of the time, I wonder, "What would it be like to get detailed feedback?"

It can't do any harm I guess. I'd consider it. But I wouldn't alter the plot on a beta's say-so. I'd just ask them to keep an eye out for technicalities.

Plus, someone made a very good point to me once: that people only read what you've put on the paper, not what's in your head, so you have to find out whether or not you've properly expressed yourself in words. Do your readers get the impression of your characters that you WANT them to have? Have you used the correct words to express your vision?

Sage · Mar 11, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
Plus, someone made a very good point to me once: that people only read what you've put on the paper, not what's in your head, so you have to find out whether or not you've properly expressed yourself in words. Do your readers get the impression of your characters that you WANT them to have? Have you used the correct words to express your vision?

This is the real advantage of betas, IMO. You don't necessarily have to change anything based on what they say, but it's good to have another opinion or two to make sure readers see your novel the same way you do.

johnzakour · Mar 11, 2007

Sage said:
This is the real advantage of betas, IMO. You don't necessarily have to change anything based on what they say, but it's good to have another opinion or two to make sure readers see your novel the same way you do.

See, that's what I think publishers, editors and agents are for.

For the most part though, be it right or be it wrong, I trust my own opinion.

So far it's worked for me.

scarletpeaches · Mar 11, 2007

You have to get it right BEFORE it goes to a publisher, editor or agent, though, or they won't take you on.

It's not their job to rewrite your book. You're the writer; you do it. Why would they take on a novel that needs a lot of editing when there are so many that don't, so many that would make their job easier rather than harder?

rugcat · Mar 11, 2007

I agree with John. I've never used beta readers, and have no interest in doing so.

But again, it's a question of what works best for each individual. I have a writer acquaintance that uses critique groups, beta readers, support systems - all the things I find unnecessary.

She just received an advance for her first YA novel so large that it would astound you.

For the love of Betas

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