How much does word count matter?

haefner919 · Mar 9, 2007

My finished 2nd novel sits at 62,000 words. A week and a half ago it was only 57,000- I added some detail and elaborated some parts where I felt it was necessary. Technically anything over 40 is considered a novel correct? But most publishers want 80-100,000. Do I force another 18,000 words or leave it as is and hope for the best when querying agents? Do I have a chance at getting this published if it is shorter than most novels???? It's chick lit, if that helps any.

CaroGirl · Mar 9, 2007

I have the same problem you do: I write short. Chick lit tends toward the shorter novel. I say you're fine with that length. But what do I know?

Penguin Queen · Mar 9, 2007

Doesnt it depend on genre though, too?
60,000 sounds fine to me.

Are doorstoppers all the rage then now?

willietheshakes · Mar 9, 2007

Penguin Queen said:
Doesnt it depend on genre though, too?
60,000 sounds fine to me.

Are doorstoppers all the rage then now?

60K plus is hardly a doorstopper...

giftedrhonda · Mar 9, 2007

Word count does matter sometimes. When I was querying my chick lit novel (which was 65k), I got several agents who asked me to boost it at least 10k. Most publishers want around 75k to 100k (300 to 400 manuscript pages) for novels...but you have to look at your specific publisher's requirements--they often state desired word count.

Also depends on the genre. I'm writing YA now, and that's somewhere from 45k to 60k. My novel is 45k, and I snagged an agent with it. She never said anything about it being too short.

To sum it up, it depends. LOL

MidnightMuse · Mar 9, 2007

A doorstopper is the 240k monster in my desk (keeps it from moving when I slam into it walking by).

Desired word count can vary with genre. And you'll get no less than - oh, probably 12 different "this is the God's honest truth here" replies. Research your genre's already published works and check some word counts - and see if your target agent(s) have desired word count ranges listed on their web pages.

That said, the story is the story. Padding doesn't improve anything if your story is completed best-story-it-can-be at 62k.

johnzakour · Mar 9, 2007

Depends on the publisher and the genre.

60K for chick lit shouldn't be a deal breaker. If they like it they can always ask you to add a few K.

My books usually come in at 80-100K which I think is fine for pulp SF but short by most of Daw's standards.

Doug Johnson · Mar 9, 2007

I believe that if you really understand a genre, it should turn out about right. Too long, or too short, is a sympton of another problem: usually not enough detail or verbose prose.

Writer14 · Mar 9, 2007

Some publishers catagorize genres with word count,so thats a time when Word Count can matter.

maddythemad · Mar 9, 2007

Is it straight chick-lit, or YA? My novel is a YA chick-lit, and it's only 50k words.

Penguin Queen · Mar 9, 2007

willietheshakes said:
60K plus is hardly a doorstopper...

No, but...

haefner919 said:
<...> But most publishers want 80-100,000. <...>

... 100,000 is. Well, to me anyway. But then my book is 35,000 words, so I guess I tend towards the short anyway.
Which nobody who hears me talk IRL would believe :tongue

willietheshakes · Mar 9, 2007

Penguin Queen said:
No, but
... 100,000 is. Well, to me anyway.

Not really. Before I Wake weighs in at about 100,000 words in the CDN edition, and sits at a comfortable 370 pages (with a fairly large font).

The new Pynchon is a doorstopper. Vikram Chandra's Sacred Games is a doorstopper.

100,000 words is just a good length.

swvaughn · Mar 9, 2007

I asked Nathan Bransford about this in the Ask the Agent thread. He said (rather encouragingly, I might add) that he doesn't see a problem with novels in the 60K - 70K range, which is where mine clocks in. Though 50K is often the technical low-end cap, most agents (I gather) won't consider anything not close to 60K.

But Nathan did say The Great Gatsby was 50K, and I found out a few of James Patterson's novels hover around 60K (at least one slightly under, and one slightly over). Of course, Patterson is Patterson...

And like MidnightMuse said -- if your novel is complete at 62K, you should probably leave it there. Padding it will read like padding, and detract from the story.

AllieB · Mar 9, 2007

I once had an agent tell me that 55K (for a romance novel) was much too short. Most agents and publishers in my genre (which also includes mainstream women's fiction) look for 80K as a minimum.

scarletpeaches · Mar 9, 2007

I can't believe some people think 100k is a doorstopper. Even at MS Word count that's nothing, never mind manuscript format and counting 250 words for every page, which would only be 400 pages.

You should never force a novel to be longer than it wants to be, though, otherwise the bits you add will seem like what they are - padding.

Michael Dracon · Mar 9, 2007

Simon R. Green's Nightside novels are about 250-275 pages. I think that's in the 60k to 80k range of words.

Robyn · Mar 9, 2007

I have to agree with most. Depends on the book, genre and agent. My first one came in close to 100k. The following ones 70k or there abouts. For me it's tough to write shorter than 60k to be honest. But that is just my style.

haefner919 · Mar 9, 2007

Thanks for all your responses.....I hate to force the words, ya know?? I'm still in revision #4, searching for places that may need more clarification and spots where I need to "show not tell".

jodiodi · Mar 9, 2007

I've never written anything shorter than 100,000. I've got a couple of WiPs, though, that might run a a little closer to 100k than my usual 115-130k. Then again, I'm in Romance (non-category), hoping for single-title status which usually runs 100k-150k.

others, I've seen, are less, usually around 70k-90k. Good luck.

theo · Mar 10, 2007

I believe that discovering this writers paradise is going to be a godsend for me, I thank you all for your advice (except one).
I find the debate about word count interesting, I feel the need to fill my book out more without being pointless, food for thought.
I will be back.

Raphee · Mar 10, 2007

Nicholas Spark's first novel was 52K.
I don't pay for a novel by weight, rather by the quality of its writing.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 10, 2007

Raphee said:
Nicholas Spark's first novel was 52K.
I don't pay for a novel by weight, rather by the quality of its writing.

I tend to agree, and I like short novels. At the same time, however, publishers put out guidelines for the length they want for a given line of novels, and there is no logical reason not to write within these guidelines.

There are enough roadblocks in the way without adding another that doesn't have to be there.

Manat · Mar 10, 2007

jodiodi said:
I've never written anything shorter than 100,000. I've got a couple of WiPs, though, that might run a a little closer to 100k than my usual 115-130k. Then again, I'm in Romance (non-category), hoping for single-title status which usually runs 100k-150k.

others, I've seen, are less, usually around 70k-90k. Good luck.

Hi Jodi.

I'm not sure about the 150k for a single title romance. I had a 130,000 historical romance/adventure and I had one of the best agents in the romance biz tell me it was too long for her to sell. I didn't listen, but when I heard the same from three others I took the axe and dropped 25,000 words. It's a tighter, probably better book for it, but that really hurt. Anyway it sold pretty quick after that. It comes out in 2008. What I was told by the agent I have now is that due to production costs publishers generally don't want to spend big bucks on 130,000 word tomes by unknown writers. There are exceptions to every rule of course, but I'm keeping my two current WIP's around 100,000 words untill I hit the best seller lists and can do as I please.

ORION · Mar 10, 2007

Novel length (as others have stated) can be a factor of genre and reader expectation. That being said I find when I have to ask the question "Is my novel too short?" I know deep inside that it is and much of the narrative could be expanded to scenes and dialogue- Many writers think show don't tell is merely in the descriptions. It can be also seen in narrative.
JMHO

maestrowork · Mar 10, 2007

Story and characters always trump length, as long as you're within range. To Kill a Mockingbird was a relatively short book. Nick Sparks' first book about Alzheimer's sold millions. They were all hot topics, but the stories themselves resonate with the readers, too. If it's a good story, the agent is not going to say no even if it's 55K or 240K. Obviously, if it's too long, printing cost would be a concern -- can you charge the readers $32.95 for a 600-page book? Even JK Rowling's fans are bemoaning the costs of her latest books. The further away from the "norm" the better your story has to be, or a bigger name.

How much does word count matter?

Living the dream

Break the rules.

Gentleman. Scholar. Bastard.

Gifted Goofball

Midnight Reading

Dangerous with a Keyboard

Christina.

Break the rules.

Gentleman. Scholar. Bastard.

adrift

Urban Fantasy Geek

Reflections of Reality

In debt to AW

Sailed away years ago

Fear the Death Ray