Smaller vs. Larger Advances

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Edward G

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What is the danger in getting a large advance with one's first book? I've heard that if the book doesn't earn back it's advance, it can kill the author's career. But if one is only given a small advance, then the publisher won't have the motivation to try to sell the book like they should.

Any advice?
 

PeeDee

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Mmm, I'm not sure it's quite as black 'n' white as that, honestly. The downside of a large advance is, if you don't sell enough copies then you don't 'earn out' that big amount. It's easier to earn out the smaller number.

That's about as far as my thinking takes me on this one, 'm afraid.
 

CheshireCat

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What is the danger in getting a large advance with one's first book? I've heard that if the book doesn't earn back it's advance, it can kill the author's career. But if one is only given a small advance, then the publisher won't have the motivation to try to sell the book like they should.

Any advice?


Depends. Depends on what you're writing, who your agent is, what sort of deal you get, what the publisher's plans are, what sort of pre-publication buzz there is, and on and on.

I've seen first-time writers get large advances, not even get close to a sell-through high enough to please the pub, and find it difficult to sell the second book. Or, if it was a multiple-book contract, the author discovers a much lower print run the second time around, with less chance of getting a decent sell-through, and find their careers tanking.

I've seen the same thing happen with small advances. Also seen first-time, large advance success stories.

It just depends.

Except for writing the book, most of it's beyond your control anyway.

What are you asking advice about? Whether to accept a small advance or push for a larger one? First-time writers tend not to have that sort of clout, short of a Big Time Agent or a rare and amazing bidding war.
 

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This question came up recently in the Ask an Agent subforum (in Nathan's thread).

Advantages of a big advance:
-You are guaranteed that money
-Publisher might put more into promoting the book so they can earn back their investment

Advantages of a small advance:
-It is easier to "earn out" your advance, which looks better in the publisher's eyes
-If the publisher had a budget to spend on the book, they've spent less on the advance & have more to promote it.

If you earn $50K on the book, it won't matter whether you had a $50K advance or a $5K advance.
 

PeeDee

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Cheshire has a good point; if you're asking advice about what to take, take what you can and run with it. Big or small, it's a starting point, and you can go from there.
 
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maestrowork

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There's no right or wrong answer. There are always pros and cons. Personally, I would rather have a small advance at the beginning of my career and build on it. Otherwise, there's too much pressure to perform -- gives me an ulcer.
 

Claudia Gray

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I think it's worth remembering that the advance reflects the publisher's best idea of how much you will sell; no, they don't know absolutely, but before your editor says yes, s/he has already talked to others, estimated roughly what they can expect and made an offer to you that's in line with that (or lower). While they are looking out for themselves, not for you, it's in their interest to cultivate a writer who will sell more books and build a following, not wreck careers and have to reintroduce new writers all the time. So I would say that, unless you are talking these huge mega-advances for the most hyped books, it's not something most of us have to worry much about.
 

johnrobison

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Large advances do put pressure on authors to perform, but they put pressure on publishers to do their part as well.

My own experience tells me that the publishers who offer bigger advances are also going to make bigger committments in other areas to make the book a success.

That said, if you are lucky enough to have a choice of publishers, I suggest you pick the one that loves it best and will make it the best it can be. The advance is only the beginning for a good book. The better it is, the longer it will sell, and you need an editing team that will work hard to attain that goal.
 

Will Lavender

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Is there anyone who, when offered a large advance, actually declines it? I mean in the history of publishing?

Is that what the OP is asking?

Take the money up front, man. Take the money.
 

Anthony Ravenscroft

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Is there anyone who, when offered a large advance, actually declines it? I mean in the history of publishing?
Yep -- most famously, Stephen King. He apparently baffled his publisher & his agent by demanding a token $1.00 for Christine. He said something like, "I figured it would earn out soon enough."

I know another author who has published tons of stuff with small & fan-run presses -- nonfiction, editorial, reviews, stories, showing up as books, chapbooks, one-sheet flyers, tapes, even videos. He asks a fair price, gives superior product (usually in a timely fashion), & demands cash on delivery, & sometimes up-front... but he holds onto all rights after first-use, & will happily resell a good piece after a respectable amount of time. He's leery of royalties unless it's an iron-clad deal with an established & solvent publisher.
 

Maprilynne

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I personally go for the idea that an advance is a commitment from the publisher. I guarantee there is no publisher in the world who gives out a large advance thinking, hey, at least i the advance doesn't earn out I can have a shot at ruining this author's career, Yesss!!!

The publisher offers you an advance equal to or less than the amount they think they can squeeze out of sales. (and that is not quite the same thing as earning out your advance. The publisher can still make a healthy profit if you don't quite earn out.) If you are offered a, say, six-figure advance, the publisher is not going to sit around and give you the same publicity as a ten thousand dollar book. They are going to do their damndest to earn their money back. If it tanks, it tanks. Sometimes sh*t happens. But you know what happens more often to books with big advances? They become well-know authors who are at the beginning of a nice long career. I think the risk is definitely worth it.

And so does the publisher. Otherwise they wouldn't have offered the advance in the first place.

JMHO

Maprilynne
 

aruna

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But you know what happens more often to books with big advances? They become well-know authors who are at the beginning of a nice long career. I think the risk is definitely worth it.

And so does the publisher. Otherwise they wouldn't have offered the advance in the first place.

JMHO

Maprilynne

Not always true! I remember a quote by Simon Trewin, a big UK agent, who railed on about this subject. I'm going to look for that quote - it's here somewhere, I think.

I have heard of several authors who had big advances that didn't earn out, most memorably The Lazarus Child, which got $5 million in advances, but sold miserably - in spite of the buzz and the media interest. Editors can miscalculate; the main thing is Word of Mouth, and if readers don't like the book, then, tough luck.

My first book didn't sell as well as the UK publisher anticipated, and thus did not earn out, which was bad news for me career-wise.

The same book earned a tiny advance in France, but the publisher stood behind it 100%, promoted it for all they were worth, and it finally earned far more than I got for the UK advance for the same book.
So i guess it differs from publisher to publisher. I know my UK editor had a long chat with my French editor to find out "what they did"!

If offered I would take a large advance again, but this time I would be far more interested in knowing exactly WHAT the publisher intended to do with the book. It's not enough to say "oh this will be a word of mouth book" and leave it to its own devices.
 
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aruna

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Here's that Simon Trewin quote. My bold.
The whole article is here. It's well worth reading.
There is two-fold pressure on young editors to pursue only the big ticket projects: firstly, because anything less won’t compute; and secondly because there are fewer books being acquired so that, to earn their spurs, upwardly mobile editors need to make a splash.

You are not going to do that by buying a quiet book for £5,000. One sometimes feels an editor would rather end up with £70,000 unearned on a £100,000 advance than with a book bought for a modest sum, published to some pleasing reviews, selling 3,000 in trade paperback and 7,000 in A format, earning out and paving the way for a step-up with book two. Going simply for the potential bestseller every time is the quickest route to publishing oblivion for many authors, condemning us all to reinventing the wheel every time.

There is a game I often play. It’s called “Name the Second Book”. The rules are simple: you look at the pre-Frankfurt Bookseller of a few years ago, read the announcement of the “Six-figure pre-empt for début author” and try to remember what happened next. The game doesn’t take long, because 90% of the time you can’t remember the author’s first book, let alone their second.
 
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I totally agree with you Aruna. But I think the point Maprilyne was making was that in theory the idea is if the publisher spends a lot of money they are looking to make back their advance. I don't think it is a guarentee at all that your book will be a best seller, but you yourself even pointed out that despite the buzz etc that 5 million dollar book failed. Yes, but it still had the buzz. It failed because books aren't bought because of marketing alone. But because of the advance, the book had buzz. If it hadn't had the advance, it wouldn't have had the buzz, and still probably would have sold as poorly if not worse.

Does any of this make sense? I do agree that large advances do a disservice to the industry in that editors now feel a pressure to give a big advance and then won't take as many risks in buying interesting books. They want what they see as a sure thing. Whatever that is.
 

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You are not going to do that by buying a quiet book for £5,000. One sometimes feels an editor would rather end up with £70,000 unearned on a £100,000 advance than with a book bought for a modest sum, published to some pleasing reviews, selling 3,000 in trade paperback and 7,000 in A format, earning out and paving the way for a step-up with book two. Going simply for the potential bestseller every time is the quickest route to publishing oblivion for many authors, condemning us all to reinventing the wheel every time.

I find this really depressing as an author. I don't want to be a bestseller or a household name selling tonnes of books and with loads of pressure and publicity. I'd quite happily be intelligent midlist, as I appear to be heading towards, selling a modest number of books while continuing to work in a library part time to supplement income. This doesn't appear to be a workable career aim for a writer anymore. Like everything else in the world, it's all about sharp suits, competitive edge and money now.

It's sad as a reader too, as I far prefer reading intelligent midlist to the type of thing a hungry, Gucci-clad, young editor might see as the next bestseller.
 
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I've heard it said the hardest book to write is the second.

I'm having trouble enough getting the first published...*sigh*
 

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I'm having trouble enough getting the first published...*sigh*

I'm not trying too hard to get the one I've just finished published, but am just working on the next one. It's partly that I don't think the first one is there yet and I'm too close to it to re-write it well; partly because I think it can't hurt to have two ready to go. I have a third all plotted into neat chapters as well, and a fourth in the planning stage. None of them are likely to be potential bestsellers so I figure having a portfolio of the things might be the only way to go... saves ever having to have second novel blues or getting too hung up about rejections :)
 

aruna

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I actually feel very rich at the moment - I have three finished manuscripts all ready to go!
And fergie, don't feel bad. There IS still room on the midlist. and there are plenty of smaller publishers which aren't quite as manic as those big boys.
But I remember my ex-agent telling me "Either you're big or you're nothing". She meant it, too.
 
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You won't be wanting a ride in my Testarossa when I get my first mahoosive royalties cheque then, aruna? Don't hold your breath. :D
 

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I was the one who posed the question in the Ask The Agent thread. I realize it may never be an issue for me, but it was something I was curious about nonetheless. I also realize publishers aren't going to offer large advances they don't think would earn out, but the higher the number, the harder it becomes.

I want a long, steady career writing books. I don't want to sell one or two books, then spend another ten years trying yet again to get published because the first two were considered failures in the publisher's eye.

Then again, if someone started waving six-figure advances in front of my face, I'm not sure I'd be able to turn it down.
 

swvaughn

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Then again, if someone started waving six-figure advances in front of my face, I'm not sure I'd be able to turn it down.

I could turn it down! Considering what we've been living on for the past twelve years, a 50K advance would be a freakin' fortune. That's five years of survival right there, easy.

(Not that I would turn it down. But I could. Yeah. If.)

:D
 
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