Exactly the right powers to solve the problem

Michael Dracon · Mar 6, 2007

I'm working out an Urban Fantasy story and decided almost immediately that my MCs will not get the exact right powers to solve the conflicts that are presented.

I noticed with some novels that the solves the main conflict that way. Personally, I find that to be very lame and way too close to a deux ex machina solution. I'd rather give my MCs something that doesn't directly solve the problem, but does help out with creating a solution.

How do you handle this? Do you give them exactly what they need or do you give them some tools/powers that could be helpful and see if they can solve it with that?

Tallymark · Mar 6, 2007

I think its fun to give them the exact right powers to cause the problem, and the brains to solve it.

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 6, 2007

I keep hearing the deux ex machine and all I can think of it's some Police song.

Anyway, my character is a mage. Because of that he gets into magic situations. Of course he's going to have the right powers to solve the problem. The trick is to make the problem confusing enough where he isn't exactly sure how to solve the problem and that is the fun of the story. Putting the puzzle pieces together until he figures out what he's up against and how to solve it.

ChaosTitan · Mar 6, 2007

Michael, I tend to agree with you. For my WIP, after I had created the heroes and their powers, I created their nemesis and gave him powers so completely opposite to the heroes that they're having a heck of a time beating him.

It's been fun having the heroes constantly trying to foil this guy, but being unable to beat him. Of course, I'm only 56k into it, and have a bit more time to figure out how they'll ultimately defeat him.

It does seem too easy to have the protag possess exactly what's needed to defeat the baddie. Maybe bits or hints, but not precisely the power/spell/magical words. It's like sticking a psychic into the third act of a mystery and telling the hero "The butler did it."

TheIT · Mar 6, 2007

IMHO, it's a lot more fun watching someone try to stick the square peg into the round hole.

In my story, my two protagonists and the villain have variations on the same magical talent. All have the talent to different degrees, but they're using the talent for extremely different ends. I've also got secondary characters with no magic who need to fight the villain.

Shweta · Mar 6, 2007

Interesting.
I wonder if I have this problem. My protagonists, working together, can solve the problem (it's not exactly a baddie per se) - but only because they have been learning to do things designed to stop this problem. It's not coincidental.

It's not exactly well-known, since the people who've been trained to stop this problem aren't exactly working together, and have managed to forget they're supposed to over the last few generations. So my kids have to actually figure out how to do these things.

Does that make it less annoying, or would that still be overly perfect?

TheIT · Mar 6, 2007

Shweta said:
Interesting.
I wonder if I have this problem. My protagonists, working together, can solve the problem (it's not exactly a baddie per se) - but only because they have been learning to do things designed to stop this problem. It's not coincidental.

It's not exactly well-known, since the people who've been trained to stop this problem aren't exactly working together, and have managed to forget they're supposed to over the last few generations. So my kids have to actually figure out how to do these things.

Does that make it less annoying, or would that still be overly perfect?

For me, the line in bold says it all. What annoys me as a reader is when the hero just happens to have the whoosawhatsit necessary to solve the problem. From your description, the question would be why the kids were preparing in the first place if no one believes the problem will occur? The interest would come from seeing them figure out how to work together.

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 6, 2007

chaostitan said:
It does seem too easy to have the protag possess exactly what's needed to defeat the baddie. Maybe bits or hints, but not precisely the power/spell/magical words. It's like sticking a psychic into the third act of a mystery and telling the hero "The butler did it."

TheIT said:
What annoys me as a reader is when the hero just happens to have the whoosawhatsit necessary to solve the problem. From your description, the question would be why the kids were preparing in the first place if no one believes the problem will occur? The interest would come from seeing them figure out how to work together.

Actually, it strikes me as realistic. The Police train all the time to face criminals. That's their job and that's what they do. Sometimes however, they come across a case that isn't so easy to crack and that's where the interest comes in. How are they going to solve the crime? I mean, we all know they have the skills, knowledge, equipment and everything to solve it, they just have to find that one special clue.

That's how my character is. That's how most crime stories are. I don't see why fantasy should be any different.

greglondon · Mar 6, 2007

The problem with magic and superpowers and the like is that they're writer tools. And if the problem at the end of the story is solved entirely by the powers given at the beginning, then there really isn't much story.

You're missing the second act, the bit where the character must try and solve the problem, but fail.

The third act is then overcoming whatever caused the failure in act 2 and finally solving the problem.

If the solution is to use superpowers given at the beginning of the story, then there really isn't much of an act 2. It always makes me laugh when Superman tries to do something and can't. Then he tries to the exact same thing harder, and it works.

Lame.

The character shouldn't start out with everything they need to solve the problem. The whole reason to have a story is to watch the character overcome whatever piece was missing that caused the failure in act 2.

TheIT · Mar 6, 2007

Shadow_Ferret said:
Actually, it strikes me as realistic. The Police train all the time to face criminals. That's their job and that's what they do. Sometimes however, they come across a case that isn't so easy to crack and that's where the interest comes in. How are they going to solve the crime? I mean, we all know they have the skills, knowledge, equipment and everything to solve it, they just have to find that one special clue.

That's how my character is. That's how most crime stories are. I don't see why fantasy should be any different.

Agreed, every character brings their individual skills and training to the fight, and watching the character stretch to use those skills is much of the enjoyment.

But fantasy and SF provide a much wider range of possible skills, so sometimes it can become too farfetched. If the characters just happened to already have the skillset/magical artifact/technology to solve the story problem easily, where's the fun? Where's the struggle? Coincidence shouldn't be part of the plotting.

For TV SF examples: In Star Trek, think the tricorder, holodeck, or transporter. In original Doctor Who, think the sonic screwdriver.

Michael Dracon · Mar 6, 2007

One of the reasons that triggered my question is the problem of having a Witch/Wizard/Mage/Whatever you want to call it as MC(s). They can do loads of stuff, so it could be quite easy to solve many problems.

Jim Butcher goes around that problem by having wizards like Harry Dresden need time to prepare. That and the ever-famous 'running out of fuel' method of balancing things out.

I decided for my novel to go for the single talent approach. You've got one special thing. Now try to make the best of it to solve the problem. But it's hard to choose one that isn't too potent. I don't want to put in the old 'the power is not easy to control' trick to balance it (like Peter Petrelli and Hiro in the TV series Heroes).

PS: There is a novel that I am using more and more often as a reference of how not to do things. It's called Witchling, and it's the first part of a trilogy. It's about three sisters. One is part human, part Fae and part Witch. One is part human, part Fae and part Vampire. And one is part human, part Fae and part Werecat. All three are prone to failing and/or botching powers. Talk about randomly given powers to try and solve things... :Wha:

Michael Dracon · Mar 6, 2007

TheIT said:
Agreed, every character brings their individual skills and training to the fight, and watching the character stretch to use those skills is much of the enjoyment.

But fantasy and SF provide a much wider range of possible skills, so sometimes it can become too farfetched. If the characters just happened to already have the skillset/magical artifact/technology to solve the story problem easily, where's the fun? Where's the struggle? Coincidence shouldn't be part of the plotting.

For TV SF examples: In Star Trek, think the tricorder, holodeck, or transporter. In original Doctor Who, think the sonic screwdriver.

Star Trek is one of the worst offenders in the whole SF/Fantasy corner. Randomly named particles, reversing polarity and/or a modifications to the deflector dish are the writer's favorite methods of solving problems. They sucked deux ex machina's dry of blood and then resurrected them a dozen times over...

PeeDee · Mar 6, 2007

Michael Dracon said:
Star Trek is one of the worst offenders in the whole SF/Fantasy corner. Randomly named particles, reversing polarity and/or a modifications to the deflector dish are the writer's favorite methods of solving problems. They sucked deux ex machina's dry of blood and then resurrected them a dozen times over...

Yeah, Star Trek did that a lot.

Kentuk · Mar 6, 2007

I have an enormously gifted protagonist, her constraints are social. The magic is in the interaction.

MattW · Mar 6, 2007

There's one character out there with ultimate power that refrains from using it in most cases, and not to save himself.

His story is so popular, that many people will read 4 versions of the same thing over and over again.

Is it Eddings? OR is it Jesus?

Alex Bravo · Mar 6, 2007

Sometimes you can give the character all he or she needs to solve the problem but the character refuses to use it, either because of principles or a character flaw. Then the character either fails or must find another way.

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 6, 2007

Simply having the power doesn't mean the protagonist has the ability to put two and two together to use that power.

Thus my police analogy. The powers are there to solve the crime, but often something works against them to prevent them from solving it, be it missing clues, or a tricky criminal, tampered evidence, etc.

Those same devices can be used in a fantasy to prevent the protagonist from discovering that he has the power or needs that power.

A simplified version is Dorothy and the ruby slippers. She had them all along and could have left at any time, did that make the story any less interesting? Did anyone feel cheated at the end?

Zoombie · Mar 6, 2007

It's always fun to give the character powers that only exacerbate the situation.

Example: Dress a twitchy, trigger happy werewolf in a nice suit and put him in the same room with his arch enemies and have him/her have to use diplomacy to solve their problems.

Or

Take a diplomat, give them a gun, and say, "You're going over there, sucker!"

Always amusing. That's half the fun of writing, I've noticed. You take fun, enjoyable characters, then give them hundreds of miles of rough roads to walk down. Then you lay the LAND MINES!

Michael Dracon · Mar 6, 2007

PeeDee said:
Yeah, Star Trek did that a lot.

I saw Voltaire at a convention last year. He added an Enterprise part to it there. Hilarious as usual

Melanie Nilles · Mar 7, 2007

Star Trek technobabble deux ex machina

Michael Dracon said:
Star Trek is one of the worst offenders in the whole SF/Fantasy corner. Randomly named particles, reversing polarity and/or a modifications to the deflector dish are the writer's favorite methods of solving problems. They sucked deux ex machina's dry of blood and then resurrected them a dozen times over...

Sounds exactly like what my husband always says about ST. He's made the comment that in ST:TNG, their problems are always solved by the deflector dish or Geordi's visor, but he also forgets Data's super-human abilities. It's always one of those three.

Melanie

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 7, 2007

Melanie Nilles said:
Sounds exactly like what my husband always says about ST. He's made the comment that in ST:TNG, their problems are always solved by the deflector dish or Geordi's visor, but he also forgets Data's super-human abilities. It's always one of those three.

Melanie

Or the fact that the kid was a genius and could come up with the solution instead of Star Fleet's best officers and scientists.

Zoombie · Mar 7, 2007

Those reasons and more are why, if PeeDee didn't already have a Zathras avatar, I'd get one.

C.bronco · Mar 7, 2007

I like to treat a super or paranormal power like any other ability (e.g. intelligence, strength, bowling etc.). Having it doesn't mean the MC knows when it's best to use it nor in which new ways it could be applied.

TheIT · Mar 7, 2007

This discussion might be of interest, too:

"Limiting Your Characters"
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23556

Tachyon · Mar 7, 2007

I had a real problem with my "mage" character, who was a stereotypical "old, wise figure" and deciding how to keep him from solving the problem. But then I realised that I didn't really have a problem, because the conflict is sufficiently complex that no one person could solve it.

My main character isn't a mage (and is in fact pretty useless in both magic and fighting). What I did was give him the knowledge on how to exactly solve the problem. The I locked it in his brain so that he couldn't use it and forced him to access it with a hallucination of a long-dead hero as a go-between.

So even once he puzzles out how to resolve the conflict, he has no power to implement his solution. And the solution itself isn't very nice anyway, since it involves "not losing" more than it does "winning", and it doesn't have a very good chance of success...

Exactly the right powers to solve the problem

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