RHYMING WITHIN PROSE

Hedgetrimmer

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When I started writing for children about 3 years ago, most of my initial efforts were in rhyme. It didn't take too long to realize that I just don't have the talent for it and have since stuck to prose. However, sometimes a passage or line will come to me in rhyme and I just can't help but include it.

With my current PB, I have an exchange that is in rhyme, but the lines do not scan. I never bothered to count syllables and stresses or anything. I simply wrote it the way I heard it.

Here's my question: Does it matter that the lines do not scan if the whole piece is not rhyme?

I have included my passage below. It's an exchange between two birders and a bird. Does it work?

Peep peep peep. Peep peep peep.
"Why yes, of course, peeping sounds."
"No, not peeps. Verbs and nouns."

Toot toot toot. Toot toot toot.
"Oh, now we see. A tooting bird."
"Not just toots. He said some words."

Tweek tweek tweek. Tweek tweek tweek.
"Now that makes sense. A bird that tweeks."
"No, no, no. That bird can speak."
 

Toothpaste

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Well I mean, your couplets don't actually rhyme, so you're okay I guess. But seriously, if you are going to put rhyme anywhere, even in the midst of prose, have some respect for the art form and do it properly.

First off. The rhymes . . . well they aren't. 'Sounds' does not rhyme with 'nouns'. As the word 'sound' ends with a 'd' and 'noun' with an 'n'. 'Bird' and 'words' doesn't either because you have an 's' at the end of 'words'. And the same problem with 'tweeks' and 'speak'.

With scanning . .. it isn't as difficult as you might think. If you add a word here or there, you really can do it. In fact you are already quite close.

I can fix the last two couplets if you'd like (both rhyme and scantion):

Oh now we see, a tooting bird.
No not just toots, he said a word.

Now that makes sense, that bird said tweek
no listen close, that bird can speak.

(see now the rhymes are true, and each line has 8 beats)

The first couplet will have to be changed dramatically unfortunately since very few things rhyme with 'noun', but I bet you can do it (I didn't want to do that one because then I would have to change it and re-write it and I didn't think you would appreciate that - though if you would like me to, give me a PM).

Hope none of this sounds harsh. It's just a personal pet peeve of mine. Writing rhyming poetry is darn hard, harder than people think at times, even though you acknowledged it. But even though your rhymes are put in the midst of prose, there is no sense in doing it unless you do it well.
 
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Poetry doesn't always stick to 'true' rhyme. There are such things as rich rhyme and para-rhyme too.

And much rhyming depends on the accent of the person reading it.
 

Hedgetrimmer

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Hey, thanks for responding.

Toothpaste: Not harsh at all. I once did a radio book interview, during which some of the callers praised my work while others tore me to absolute shreds. Same thing happened at a workshop of one of my plays. Most of the audience accepted it as light humor, although one woman almost came onto the stage to voice her outrage at what I had written. Hey, that's part of releasing your words to the public.

Now, back to the topic. I clearly understand about the second and third stanzas, my trying to rhyme a singular with a plural. They aren't true rhymes. And you really did a great rewrite on them. But how can "sounds" not rhyme with "nouns" simply going by the base words? True, "sound" and "noun" do not rhyme, as the "d" is very strong, but when I read "sounds" aloud, the "s" makes the "d" silent. No matter how many times I read the words aloud, I always hear them as sounding exactly alike. Is rhyme not based on the actual sound of the words rather than their spelling?

Scarletpeaches: You're right. A lot of rhyme does depend on the regional pronunciation of a word. I remember once reading that some words should be avoided in writing rhyme, as their pronunciation is different throughout the country. One word I recall being used as an example was "orange." The dictionary has it listed as a two-syllable word, and apparently people in some parts of the country do indeed pronounce it with two syllables. But growing up in the south, I've always heard it as monosyllabic.

Funny thing. I was reading a rhyming PB at B&N the other day, and there was actually an asterisk by one of the end-rhyme words with a pronunciation footnote. First time I've ever seen that, and I read a lot of picture books.
 

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True not everything is a true rhyme, but I really don't think hedgetrimmer was attempting a visual rhyme or to play with convention. As HT just admitted to thinking sound and noun were the same because to HT the d was silent. To me the d isn't silent. However I totally understand the argument, and I guess you could technically use the rhyme based on the theory that different people pronounce things differently.

I think my big thing is that often people are 'lazy' in their attempt to write rhyming poetry and then use the excuse "well actually I wanted it to be a visual rhyme and not a true rhyme" when really they just didn't know any better (not at all that I think this was what you were doing HT, but that was why I got so dogmatic about it personally - again sorry for the harshness and thanks for putting up with it!)