Urban Fantasy: Simple or elaborate universe?

Michael Dracon · Feb 28, 2007

I'm having a bit of a weird problem. I can't seem to pinpoint how detailed I want my universe to be.

I've already made the choice to spread out the information along several novels (if I ever get to do that) in order to avoid information overload. But I'm now stuck at how large (or small) a chunk I'd want to put in my first novel.

My main problem is this: I don't want to just give people exactly enough info to show how things work in the specific novel. But I also don't want to put too much on the table and scare people off because of too much info that isn't really needed in the novel.

Anyone else struggling with this? Any tips you can give?

Judg · Feb 28, 2007

An approach I am considering taking is to make a list of the things a reader NEEDS to know about my world, and beside each item, when they need to know it by. Then stop and think of where I could slip that information in, one little piece at a time, in the most natural, unobtrusive way possible. You never know, I might actually get organized enough to do it.

On the other hand, I don't mind infodumps when they are a good read in themselves. But it's very hard to do a long one without disrupting the story or making it drag.

Shadow_Ferret · Feb 28, 2007

I gave a little bit of information as I went along. Since it's in first person, I find it rather easy to drop in information every now and again as a simple MC comment on things. Or in dialog as he meets new characters. Once instance, my MC and his daughter have a conversation where he explains how the universe works.

But basically, I just give mostly info that's pertinent to what's happening in this book and plan to expand upon that in each subsequent book (knock wood).

JerseyGirl1962 · Feb 28, 2007

Michael Dracon said:
My main problem is this: I don't want to just give people exactly enough info to show how things work in the specific novel. But I also don't want to put too much on the table and scare people off because of too much info that isn't really needed in the novel.

Anyone else struggling with this? Any tips you can give?

Michael,

I totally understand. It's something I'm struggling with now; in fact, giving out too much information (an infodump) is one of the things I have to overcome as a writer.

What I'm trying to do is to look at a certain scene and ask: Does a reader really have to know this stuff right now, or can I put it in somewhere down the line? Or does the reader have to know this particular thing at all? For instance, in my WIP, my female MC has lost a bit of blood; she can barely walk, as the loss of blood is enough to make her dizzy and disoriented. A guy happens upon the scene. Was he the person she heard walking down the street just a minute before? I don't explain that in this scene. He seems to be some sort of a cop, but he's dodgy about that. He also talks about a couple of other things the MC doesn't know about. I decided not to explain those things in this scene, either.

Another idea is to read it out loud. Is it too dense or too skimpy? Or does it sound just about right?

ETA: Not sure if this'll help any but here's something from the SFWA site about worldbuilding:

http://www.sfwa.org/writing/worldbuilding1.htm

Good luck.

~Nancy

Higgins · Feb 28, 2007

I'm trying something mysterious

Michael Dracon said:
I'm having a bit of a weird problem. I can't seem to pinpoint how detailed I want my universe to be.

Anyone else struggling with this? Any tips you can give?

I decided to give just what would come up naturally...the MC has to go do something so they have to know some things....BUT, they are going to plenty of mysterious things that the MC doesn't have the time or the inclination to look into.

Michael Dracon · Feb 28, 2007

Sokal said:
I decided to give just what would come up naturally...the MC has to go do something so they have to know some things....BUT, they are going to plenty of mysterious things that the MC doesn't have the time or the inclination to look into.

This actually pretty much sums up the situation that is bothering me. In my universe there are 5 types of magic plus an outside catagory. Two of the three MCs want to learn a type of magic, but are unsure which to choose. The 3rd knows about all of them (but is unable to learn them though). Together they need to choose the type that's the easiest to learn and get someone/something to teach it to them.

This comes down to a rather large (potential) infodump, as you call it, in which MC #3 needs to explain 6 types of magic.

I'm already thinking of having the conversation going like this:
- MC #3 starts stating there are 6 types of magic, one of which is Bad News[SUP]TM[/SUP]
- MC #1 or #2 asks which is the easiest/fastest to learn (given the deadline in the story)
- MC takes a pick and starts explaining that single type of magic, leaving the others a mystery to the reader
- They all start searching for a teacher that teaches this type of magic

Not bad if you read it like that. But I think there is a logic error in there. They should be searching for the most readily available teacher, regardless of which type of magic it is (out of the 5 saver ones anyway).

JerseyGirl1962 · Feb 28, 2007

Michael Dracon said:
This comes down to a rather large (potential) infodump, as you call it, in which MC #3 needs to explain 6 types of magic.

I'm already thinking of having the conversation going like this:
- MC #3 starts stating there are 6 types of magic, one of which is Bad News[sup]TM[/sup]
- MC #1 or #2 asks which is the easiest/fastest to learn (given the deadline in the story)
- MC takes a pick and starts explaining that single type of magic, leaving the others a mystery to the reader
- They all start searching for a teacher that teaches this type of magic

Not bad if you read it like that. But I think there is a logic error in there. They should be searching for the most readily available teacher, regardless of which type of magic it is (out of the 5 saver ones anyway).

Michael,

Hmm. What if MC #1 or #2 starts it all off by saying something like, "Damn, I only have 2 days to get the baddie, so I need to learn magic fast."

To which MC #3 says, "Well, this one is easiest/fastest to learn." You might not even have to have him say anything about the other 6 magic systems (at this point). You could have him throw in something about one of the other magic systems as a sort of counterpoint to the easiest one (esp. if that counterpoint magic system comes up later in this particular novel).

That might make it less infodumpy (to me anyway). Might make it seem more natural, unforced.

Just my 2 cents.

~Nancy

PeeDee · Feb 28, 2007

I like the implication -- especially in urban fantasy -- that it's an elaborate universe. I just dont' necessarily want it all explained to me. Give me the details that I need, the basics that calm my sense of "this doesn't work right," and then make sure you have the rest of it set up strongly enough that if I start extrapolating my own theories and answers, it can support them.

And avoid infodumps at all costs, even if it means nto giving enough info.

MargueriteMing · Feb 28, 2007

Never tell the reader stuff they don't need to know, but make sure they always know what they need to by the time they actually need it.

Of course, fantasy novels often break this rule, as the world itself is part of the show.

Sage · Feb 28, 2007

The nice thing about urban/contemporary fantasy is that you usually start with the real world & modify it to make your novel's world. What you have to worry about is that people will come in with preconceived notions of how the world works, & anything you don't show as different, they will assume is the same as the real world. You have to introduce the differing elements that are important to the story, preferably before a point where the reader might be confused because you didn't explain something until just then. This can work to your advantage sometimes. You don't have to explain what a fast food or a mall or a Toyota is, unless there is something particularly different about the fast food, mall, or Toyota in question. Building a high/epic/S&S fantasy world there's almost pressure to prove that you have world-building skills, & since much of the world is foreign to the reader, it can't be left for them to "fill it in."

Higgins · Mar 1, 2007

Another funny thing

Michael Dracon said:
This comes down to a rather large (potential) infodump, as you call it, in which MC #3 needs to explain 6 types of magic.

I'm already thinking of having the conversation going like this:
- MC #3 starts stating there are 6 types of magic, one of which is Bad News[sup]TM[/sup]
- MC #1 or #2 asks which is the easiest/fastest to learn (given the deadline in the story)

Another thing that I've done to cut back on info dumps is that the MC is supposed to know a lot already (and he does about things like trucks and and ecclessicastial latin), but the players in the supernatural realm don't distinguish between different kinds of knowledge: knowledge of trucks is just as esoteric as knowledge of the 18 cosmoi that naturally intersect this one etc....so they mention things in passing that they assume the MC knows and I as the narrator just have to note: "MC had no idea what that was, but didn't mention it." Well...the MC is a tough guy and doesn't like to say he doesn't know what is going on (sort of like in the first book of Zelasny's Amber series). So you get by with no info dump, but with lots of hints about how things are.

Urban Fantasy: Simple or elaborate universe?

Michael Dracon

Urban Fantasy Geek

Judg

DISENCHANTED coming soon

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

JerseyGirl1962

I heart Malamutes! :-)

Higgins

Michael Dracon

Urban Fantasy Geek

JerseyGirl1962

I heart Malamutes! :-)

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

MargueriteMing

Sage

Our Lady of Parentheticals

Higgins