How to write a best-selling fantasy novel.

Judg · Feb 26, 2007

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~imcfadyen/notthenet/fantasy.htm

Enjoy.

Judg · Feb 26, 2007

And while we're at it, the Girl Cooties Theory of SF/Fantasy literature.

http://www.sff.net/paradise/girlcooties.htm

EngineerTiger · Feb 26, 2007

Oh good grief, I use "Y", "H", and apostrophes with a few regular English words thrown in. Hey, does that mean my epic fantasy is a sure sell?!

Yoo hoo, hey agents! Over here!

Judg · Feb 26, 2007

Well, we can always hope, eh, Engineer? But you probably have to incorporate ALL the elements for guaranteed success...

My-Immortal · Feb 26, 2007

Geez....after all this time I finally find out what I'm doing wrong....

<sigh>

EngineerTiger · Feb 26, 2007

Hmm, you are probably right about that, Judg. Never mind little agents. I only have a few of the elements. Need to add the pure, high-minded heroine and a couple of motley team members. Oh darn, I don't have the cave worked in yet either. Sigh. Another long night ahead.

MattW · Feb 26, 2007

Don't forget your Magic Widget That Shalt Not Be Used Except During the Contrived Climax!

Judg · Feb 27, 2007

I'm obviously a determined contrarian, I've got virtually none of these elements. You need ask no questions when agents refuse to participate in my self-delusion. There are rules one can not break. I am doomed, but like all those who labour under doom, I plug doggedly onward to meet it.

Lady · Feb 27, 2007

Loved this part.
Contrary to reality, the more injuries they bear, the greater their fighting skills.
So trues. It made me Happy

batgirl · Feb 27, 2007

Everyone who hasn't yet read Tough Guide to Fantasyland, by Diana Wynne Jones should do so. Really. Right now, go and get the revised edition.
-Barbara

Judg · Feb 27, 2007

Woot! I have an evil High Priest! My WIP now officially classifies as fantasy! Thanks, Batgirl, you have shown me that there is hope...

Calla Lily · Feb 27, 2007

I'm screwed. My heroine isn't a loser, her companions aren't motley, and I've created a working economy and a land based on the actual Midwest. And they eat. A lot. The heroine is a good cook.

Oh, wait! They do go on a journey! Now all I need are some caves to magically appear in non-mountainous country and a mysterious glowing crystal thingie for them to seek/control/misuse.

Hmmm...maybe an ancient and venerable Lava Lamp with eternal light not powered by an A/C outlet? :roll:

Lady Esther · Feb 27, 2007

I don't have any of those elements but the created world and maybe the high-minded heroine. Oh, they do travel, but I'm starting to wonder if my WIP is mainly Fantasy.

Judg · Feb 27, 2007

Well, you probably don't qualify for EPIC fantasy, but created world about does it for me...

blackpen · Feb 27, 2007

LOL!!!!!! LOL!!!! that first link is HILARIOUS!!

Maprilynne · Feb 27, 2007

My heroine is not, um, exactly pure. And she has a LOT of sex.

That's way cooler than an aloof untouchable.

But apparently, it will keep me from being a best-seller. Alas!

Maprilynne

alaskamatt17 · Feb 27, 2007

Although the list is meant to poke fun at the conventions of high fantasy, I think a lot of the suggestions, if followed with moderation, can make for an interesting story. You don't have to follow every suggestion, but doing so doesn't make you a hack.

1) Loser MC -- this makes a lot of sense. Flawed characters tend to be more interesting than perfect ones, probably because screwing up leads to more interesting situations.

2) Quest -- okay, so maybe it doesn't have to be the fate of the world, but the fate of SOMETHING better depend on your protagonist's actions, or no one will care what he does.

3) Motley Companions -- this is just my personal opinion, but stories in which the main character interacts with other characters seem more interesting than those in which the main character sits in a box and ponders the meaning of life. Again, just a generalization.

4) Skipping ahead a bit here ... everyone dies. Well, it works for George R. R. Martin. I guess pulling on heartstrings is part of what writers are supposed to do, though sometimes there are worse things you can do to your characters than kill them.

MattW · Feb 27, 2007

alaskamatt17 said:
4) Skipping ahead a bit here ... everyone dies. Well, it works for George R. R. Martin. I guess pulling on heartstrings is part of what writers are supposed to do, though sometimes there are worse things you can do to your characters than kill them.

I think there are too many stories where no one dies - characters are sacred, or one character is designated as the lone sacrifice in the name of drama. Martin put a solid dose of reality into fantasy. People die, often for no reason, even more often brutally.

alaskamatt17 · Feb 28, 2007

I definitely support the killing of main characters. Not meaning to sound sadistic, but it's just the way it should be. In real life, people tend to die. A lot of them die young. Having every character you like come out okay in the end just makes suspension of disbelief that much more difficult for the reader.

J. Weiland · Feb 28, 2007

"Contrary to reality, the more injuries they bear, the greater their fighting skills."

It's funny because it's true, as Homer would have said, although I doubt he reads.

It's an entertaining article but only useable if one wants to write a parody of fantasy, and I'm sure the author knows this.

Does anyone know of fantasy where a protagonist dies on a mountain because he couldn't find a passage under it?

J. Weiland · Feb 28, 2007

alaskamatt17 said:
I definitely support the killing of main characters. Not meaning to sound sadistic, but it's just the way it should be. In real life, people tend to die. A lot of them die young. Having every character you like come out okay in the end just makes suspension of disbelief that much more difficult for the reader.

I agree. Loss creates hatred, and hatred is good for plot development.

Euan H. · Feb 28, 2007

MattW said:
Martin put a solid dose of reality into fantasy. People die, often for no reason, even more often brutally.

On the other hand, fiction is not reality, and shouldn't be mistaken for it.

Sure, real life is senseless and futile (a lot of the time), but frankly, I don't want to read senseless and futile fiction. If that was what I was after, I'd watch Fox news.

I don't like the fact that Martin killed off important characters. At least in part, I think he was doing it just to show that he *could*, that he was a dangerous writer, so watch out!

On the other hand, he has written a fantasy that feels like historical fiction . . . and that's what makes his series good reading (at least for the first couple of books), not the fact that people die.

Judg · Feb 28, 2007

alaskamatt17 said:
Although the list is meant to poke fun at the conventions of high fantasy, I think a lot of the suggestions, if followed with moderation, can make for an interesting story. You don't have to follow every suggestion, but doing so doesn't make you a hack.

Quite right. Very few of those elements would be a terrible thing on their own. It's the overuse of them that make them cliché and makes the parody funny.

I do think, once we've finished giggling over the thing, that it provides a handy list of elements that should be used with caution, precisely because they've been overworked. Or even better, a good list of clichés just waiting to be turned inside out. I got the idea for my WIP by taking one of the standard assumptions in fantasy and making it a point of contention, rather than a given.

alaskamatt17 · Feb 28, 2007

For my never-ending pet project of doom, I started off with the intention of fitting in as many fantasy cliches as possible, without making them obvious. I get to cheat a little, because the setting is non-traditional for high fantasy, but there are some moments I really like that arise from attempts to fit in disguised cliches. One example: there are always beams of light shining down on powerful artifacts/weapons. In one scene of my book, the hero's gun gets knocked out of his hand during a fight in a dark part of the jungle. He hears it whir and click, and looks over to see that it has landed in a patch of sunlight, which recharged it to give him the one last shot he needed. A duck, roll and trigger-squeeze later (and one mild deus-ex machina, though it had been mentioned before that the guns recharge in sunlight) the hero stands triumphant, and it makes sense to have that golden light shining down all around him.

I find that trying to use cliches in new ways is almost as exciting as working with new ideas. Everybody knows how things are supposed to work. You're just twisting it up a little.

glutton · Feb 28, 2007

Darn, my MC is a big, bear-like unconfident female who is smart...

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