Homage vs. Outright Theft

to be frank I do it all the time. I think its ok as long as it doesnt come across as "this is my material". idk, its hard for me to explain what I mean.

Scenario A) Stealing.

I take the script "Ghost," change the characters to teens, change the settings and change most of the dialog and throw in some of my scenes just so know one really notices. I call it The Invisible. Hell, I'll even keep the angry old man ghost who teaches the hero how to be a ghost. That was a great scene. The audience will love it.

Scenario B) Inspired.

I loved Ghost and I feel I can make something unique with the same premise. So I write a script about a teen who discovers he's dead and is a ghost. Sure there are going to be similarities because a ghost is a ghost, but I am not gonna purposely copy scenes exactly the way they were done originally.. I'll call it... The Invisible.

Go see the movie when it comes out next month and you decide whether it is plagiarizing or homage.

From the look of the trailer and from what I read, I hope they have lawyers.

I dont see anything wrong with that personally. A lot of writers do that...its all in fun.

Short bits, referreces and nods to are fine especially if they're in a different context.

Homage.

But if it's the same character, in the same scene with the same language.

Theft!

So what do you think "Clueless" was? Hommage or theft? Or a direct remake?

Maybe we're talking about when something -- a line, a catchphrase, whatever -- gets assimilated into the general consciousness, at which point it's fair game to re-use it elsewhere, 'cause people recognize it, realize it's a quote, a tip of the hat to the original source. I sometimes make the mistake of starting a sentence with "Surely" e.g. "Surely you jest?" and without fail some wiseacre will come back with, "Don't call me Shirley." Why shouldn't a character say this too? I think that's homage, not plagiarism (tho' I'd expect other characters to react to a familiar line: "I'll be back!" "Who do you think you are, Arnie?").

Lifting an entire plot and re-using it without permission, probably not such a good idea, re Joe's example above.

-Derek

Direct remake. And since the work has been in the public domain for some time it can't be theft.

I would be careful when using a line from a movie that is iconic in nature. It can come across as cheesy if not done right and for the right reasons.

If the reference is too obscure, then no one will get it so what's the point, and if the reference is too familiar like "I'll be back," "I think we are gonna need a bigger boat," then it will be "got" but it may be considered cheesy and a "oh God" reaction to some.

The only advice is to use it and see what people say when they read it, then decide whether to cut it out or not.

Parkinsonsd said:

What about just taking a line or two? Or a scene,

I.E. From Indiana Jones, "I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."

Or from the Sword and the Sorceror Our hero suddenly finds himself surrounded by a bunch of bad guys, it looks terrible, and he bravely states "Who dies first".

That's more of what I was thinking as opposed to an entire plot.

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Another thing...

I don't think either one of your references is iconic enough where a lot of people will "get it" (unless your hero is wearing an Indy hat and holding a whip or the scenes themselves are very similar to yours in setting and actions), so why bother?

Also, the "I dunno" line has been used a lot since, mostly in very low budget action rip off type films, so why put yourself in that calibre?

I remember when I saw Star Trek 6 and heard all those lines from the Klingon and thought those were cool and over dramatic. It wasn't until half way through the film (and in some instances weeks later) that I realized that the General was quoting Shakespeare.

But looking at those two references I would ask myself what was it about those two lines that worked so well in those films and made them stick in your head after all these years AND see how I can write something that conveys the same mood and feel and maybe, just maybe become one of those memorable lines.

This is actually a concern of mine with my current work in progress where the premise is really similar to something else. I mean, they could have the same logline. But from then on out all the specifics are different.

For example, and I'm writing this quickly so try not to critique how inadequate a summary it is, "A thief steals from the corrupt and gives to the needy until order is restored in the administration." This is obviously the premise for Robin Hood. But it's also the premise for a movie about a Washington insider who steals confidential information from the administration and gives it to the press until a new administration is voted in and he doesn't have to anymore.

Robin Hood wouldn't be subject to 'theft' since I imagine it's public domain, but it was the first example that came to mind. And not a very good one mind you....

But I think 'homage' aka 'premise/character/scene stealing' is significantly more acceptable in genre. The scene in a detective noir when the bombshell first walks into the office -- did she kill or husband or is she a victim? No one is going to sue you for that...

My current WIP is a cop-thriller set in late 50s Chicago. It's tough, complex and somewhat serpentine, and I'm fully expecting the first person to read it when I'm finished to call it an L.A. Confidential knock-off, despite the story and characters being nothing like that film. But the feel is the same.

As it turns out, I'm a huge fan of James Ellroy (who wrote the book L.A Confidential, upon which the film is based) and his hardboiled crime books inspire me, because that's the same stuff I've always loved to read and write. The trick, though, is having the objectivity, and honesty, to step back and see if what I've written is inspired, or if it's a line-for-line rip-off. I'd love to write the next L.A. Confidential, but I don't want to write just another L.A. Confidential.

I think it all comes down to how objectively you can look at what you write, and how honest you're willing to be with yourself.

Joe Calabrese said:

Go see the movie when it comes out next month and you decide whether it is plagiarizing or homage.

From the look of the trailer and from what I read, I hope they have lawyers.

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Notice how heavy-handed the "From the producers of the Sixth Sense" credit was? Clearly they want to suggest their roots were from there and not Ghost.

Looks fine to me though. I didn't think, "Aw, come on... that's Ghost!" Yeah, same premise - dead guy tries to solve the mystery of how he died - but that's about it. Ghost was a love story, this looks more like a thriller, IMO.

In my current script, I want to use obvious homages of classic fictional characters (think The Simpson's Lucius Sweet or Surly Duff). But how do I make it obvious without getting sued or beat up by Harlan Ellison?