But what if you want to write like that?

Ghengis Kant · Feb 22, 2007

I don't know if my writing is "writery", but I hate to have to dumb down my writing in order to make it read more like a screen play or something.

I just finished reading a few books by Coetzee, the Nobel laureate and noticed that he not only will use any word he pleases, no matter how esoteric, but will also include latin german and sankrit words without translating them.

Now, I know that my writing does not resemble Coetzee's, but why is it that I would probably be told not to use erudite language and so on? Does anyone know what I mean? I feel that it's so often that writers of lit fic will be criticized by people that rarely prefer lit fic and read pulpy stuff instead.

Toothpaste · Feb 22, 2007

I don't quite understand your point. I mean literary fiction gets published and has an audience, what does it matter what the readers of "pulpy stuff" think? Write what you want to write.

icerose · Feb 22, 2007

Find your voice, find your audience, write your story, work from there.

maestrowork · Feb 22, 2007

Why do you care what people who don't read your genre think... chances are, they won't read your book to find out anyway.

johnzakour · Feb 22, 2007

Toothpaste said:
I don't quite understand your point. I mean literary fiction gets published and has an audience, what does it matter what the readers of "pulpy stuff" think? Write what you want to write.

I write that "pulpy stuff", there's enough room in the bookstores for all of us.

Just write what you like. If you like it chances are others will too.

Toothpaste · Feb 22, 2007

John, you do know I was quoting the OP with "pulpy stuff" right?

Shadow_Ferret · Feb 22, 2007

Don't go changin' to try and please me...

I like the pulpy stuff and probably wouldn't read your lit. stuff even if you did "dumb it down." So be true to yourself.

johnzakour · Feb 22, 2007

Toothpaste said:
John, you do know I was quoting the OP with "pulpy stuff" right?

I know you were just quoting the OP.

I proudly write pulp.

Obviously there are people who don't like it and look down on it a bit, but that's okay. We need all kinds of people in the world. It keeps it interesting.

Rich · Feb 22, 2007

GK, you never dumb down your writing. If you do, you're not writing.

Shit, I don't know how I can add to that.

roach · Feb 22, 2007

Are you using the absolutely write word to get your point across? If so I don't see what the problem is. I don't think this is an issue restricted to just lit-fic, all writing, no matter what genre, requires the writer use words wisely. (Go read The Gate to Women's Country by Sherri Tepper, a science fiction novel with all sorts of lovely writing, including "25 cent" words.)

If a reader comes across a word she doesn't know she'll either work it out via context, look it up, or skip over it. The first two won't be troubled by high falutin' words while nothing can be done with the third.

johnzakour · Feb 22, 2007

Rich said:
GK, you never dumb down your writing. If you do, you're not writing.

Shit, I don't know how I can add to that.

Rich is right, if you try dumbing down your writing then it's not your writing.

It would be like if I tried writing in a classic literature style, it just won't fly.

There are lots of different type of readers so room for lots of types of writers.

Siddow · Feb 22, 2007

Ghengis Kant said:
why is it that I would probably be told not to use erudite language and so on?

(emphasis mine)
Until you have an editor hovering over you with a big fat check, saying, "Dumb it down, would ya?", then write what you'd like to read. There's room for all sorts of writers, even ones who use the big words.

scribbler1382 · Feb 22, 2007

Scribbler's rule:

If your readers rub that spot on their forehead between their eyes and say "Hubba-wah?" when they're reading your work, you messed up. Everything else is for the publicists to work out.

scarletpeaches · Feb 22, 2007

Ghengis Kant said:
...I hate to have to dumb down my writing in order to make it read more like a screen play or something...

Oh man, your name is mud in the screenwriting forum right now!

icerose · Feb 22, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
Oh man, your name is mud in the screenwriting forum right now!

I just wanted to point out that there is a huge difference between dumbed down and simple. Scripts need to be simple. All the flowery language aside or it distracts from the point and has no place.

It is a blueprint rather than a final project.

So I really don't see how the two can compare.

If the OP doesn't want to respect screenwriting, that's fine, he can do that, but I did want to clarify.

Anyway, I'm shutting up now.

jdparadise · Feb 22, 2007

Ghengis Kant said:
I don't know if my writing is "writery", but I hate to have to dumb down my writing...

It's not a question of "dumbing it down." It's a question of using exactly the right words--and no more, and no less, than required--to get across what you're trying to get across.

That said, I've been accused (by my wife, no less! ouch!) of "pretentious" writing. It's not even because I use big words (though I do); it's arcane sentence constructions because I like the rhythms, gaps left in the narrative to encourage the reader to fill in their assumptions... I've had to spend a lot of time in second-drafts making sure that what I'm writing is accessible and not simply masturbatory.

Ultimately, we write for the reader. If my writing style doesn't help the reader get what I want them to get out of the work, no matter how in love with my blessed darlings I may be, they may well need to go...

PeeDee · Feb 22, 2007

I'm really proud of you if you know lots of dem der big words and everything, but if I can't read your book, then what have you accomplished?

They're right up there. Picking the right word doesn't mean the biggest, or the coolest word you know. it's the right word.

I'm sure someone out there likes reading James Joyce for pleasure. I suspect I live on the wrong planet to find "Finnegan's Wake" fun. Whereas I can read Gene Wolfe (who isn't afraid of big words, or small words) with ease and delight, because he's telling a story for the reader.

If a book is written and no one can read it, does it make a sound?

JanDarby · Feb 22, 2007

Terry Pratchett has the most amazing vocabulary -- he managed to use "trepanned" in a KIDS' book -- but his sentences are very simple, and he always uses, consistent with the advice above, not a big word, but a RIGHT word. As a result, his stories are simple on the surface, and you can read them without knowing what a word means (or the assorted allusions to literature, pop culture, philsophy, etc.), but if you know the word (or look it up), the story is even better. He doesn't dumbing down anything, but neither does he hit you over the head (or trepan you) with his vocabulary, so his books aren't difficult to read.

It's been years since I first read the book (The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents), and I still marvel over "trepan."

JD

Nateskate · Feb 22, 2007

I'm a little more sympathetic to this point, cause I really ain't as smart as most readers, writers, agents, or editors.

I'm like Martin Crane (or is it Krane) in a Frazier world and don't buy books that speak over my head.- which is why lots of books never make it to my home. (I don't know if I should be ashamed to admit this???)

Have a nice day,

Nate

johnzakour · Feb 22, 2007

JanDarby said:
Terry Pratchett has the most amazing vocabulary -- he managed to use "trepanned" in a KIDS' book -- but his sentences are very simple, and he always uses, consistent with the advice above, not a big word, but a RIGHT word. As a result, his stories are simple on the surface, and you can read them without knowing what a word means (or the assorted allusions to literature, pop culture, philsophy, etc.), but if you know the word (or look it up), the story is even better. He doesn't dumbing down anything, but neither does he hit you over the head (or trepan you) with his vocabulary, so his books aren't difficult to read.

It's been years since I first read the book (The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents), and I still marvel over "trepan."

JD

There's a reason he sells so many books.

Deep and complex writing made easy to read.

PeeDee · Feb 22, 2007

To answer the question in the title, what if I want to write like that?

Then write like that. Go for it. Hell, write in purple crayon using Nordic runes if it makes you happy.

But, at the end of the day, you must show it to the readers, and if it's meaningless to everyone but you....then it's like your kid making a pretty birthday card for you on construction paper. Pretty and neat, but you can't sell it worth tuppence.

Will Lavender · Feb 22, 2007

When I was younger, I read a lot of what the OP calls "lit fic."

Now I read almost solely genre.

I'm older now, wiser, smarter (my wife disagrees), so shouldn't it have been the other way around? Shouldn't I have "grown" into lit fic?

No. Literary fiction stopped making sense to me at a certain point in my life. That had nothing to do with big words; it was simply the fact that I was not being...entertained by those writers.

That's off the point of the topic, I believe.

So I guess I would say:

Entertain. It's what we do. Big words, little words, nonsense words, doesn't matter -- just entertain somebody. Make the reader take your journey.

PeeDee · Feb 22, 2007

Literary fiction falls into the same little box as "slice of life" fiction for me. I don't get it. I'm not entertained, by and large.

Of course, then we get into the knotty area of defining "literary" fiction, and if tihs topic ranges into that area like others have, I'm running as fast as I can back to my hack novels.

RG570 · Feb 22, 2007

Write that way anyway. Just because the majority isn't interested in it, doesn't mean it's not good. Might not be profitable, but people who like the more difficult arts do appreciate good work, regardless of all the silly axioms invoked by genre fiction writers and long articles by bestsellers who like to point out how stupid intellectuals are.

I say this as a "pulp" writer, too. I don't compare the two because there's no point. They're like completely different experiences. I like a good adventure story, but I also am not put off by "huh?" moments that really make me have to think.

kirstin_mccormack · Feb 22, 2007

That made me smile, PeeDee, as I feel exactly the same about science fiction/fantasy and have caught myself wondering why people wouldn't want to write a "real" book.

Apparently my book snobbery knows no bounds.

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