So.. what if your novel is longer than 100,000 words?

onetiredmama · Feb 22, 2007

Knowing where my novel is going (that's a good thing, huh?) I know it's going to be longer than 100,000. Clearly some novels are longer than this, but does a longer word count put off agents/publishers? thanks, Lisa

scribbler1382 · Feb 22, 2007

Some?

Look at the guidelines for the agents/publishers you're going to query or some of the published works that are similar to yours. But, the first thing to do is just write it. Don't worry about the length right now. Tell your story. You can worry when you put on your revision cap. (If you need to worry at all.)

maestrowork · Feb 22, 2007

Is it any good?

I think you should focus on that.

Toothpaste · Feb 22, 2007

As a very long winded writer myself, almost always thousands upon thousands of words can be cut. I was asked to edit 10 000 words from my MS (at the time 97 000 words) from my soon to be agent. Didn't think it was possible, but when I did it, you couldn't really tell what had been cut.

Del · Feb 22, 2007

I've learned that I can cut word count in half without loosing much at all. As Scribbler said, write it. Worry about word count later. But with practice you can put it where ever you want.

Around 90,000 would be good if this is your first novel.

scarletpeaches · Feb 22, 2007

There are plenty of big novels published, yes, even by first-timers. Just focus on making it the best book it can be for now and if the final draft stays over 100,000 words, so be it.

Del · Feb 22, 2007

Publishers see a big novel as an added production cost. First timers are less likely to sell a big book because it is harder to recoup the expense. Sure, anything can happen but if you don't need the words why use them?

scarletpeaches · Feb 22, 2007

And if you DO need those words? Look at people like Lesley Pearse...all of her books are well over 100k. And Barbara Erskine. Adele Parks. Lisa Jewell. Cathy Kelly.

And if you're not into chicklit, Salman Rushdie, Hari Kunzru, Matthew Reilly, Stephen King, Ian Rankin, Val McDermid...

100k isn't even a 'big' book to me. That's only three or four hundred pages.

Toothpaste · Feb 22, 2007

I totally agree with you scarlet, but I mean don't you think it is likely that a lot a lot of first time writers either write too little or too much having never figured out the how to write a novel thing before? I think the reason editors and agents don't want over 120 000 has more to do with the fact that most new writers write too much. HOWEVER, I totally agree that there are new authors out there for whom a longer book simply consists of the correct number of words to tell the story. I just think it is important for every author to look at the general rule and question if maybe they should follow it and not always assume they are the exception.

TheIT · Feb 22, 2007

onetiredmama, is your novel word count based on your rough draft or your revised work?

My own novel WIP is over 102K right now, and I'm expecting it to clock in around 125K. When I revise, I expect it'll shrink. I tend to write wordy first drafts, though I think I'll need a chain saw to get this one down to size. :e2chain:

ChaosTitan · Feb 22, 2007

It's still your first draft. Don't worry about the word count until it's time to revise.

alaskamatt17 · Feb 22, 2007

I tend to write more than I need on the rough draft, but cutting is generally easy. For my second SF book, the rough draft word count was 180,000 words. I cut 14,000 in the first revision, and I think I could cut a lot more.

A rule I first read in Stephen King's On Writing is: second draft = first draft - 10%. So far I've had no success with novels, but this rule does make my short stories a lot better every time I follow it.

jclarkdawe · Feb 22, 2007

Word count is important, but not the be all and end all. When my nonfiction book, Equine Liability, was accepted by the publisher, I was at 130,000 words. Published, it clocked in at 80,000 words. My editor said cut, I said how can I, my editor said cut, eventually I cut.

The next novel I'm going to attempt to sell is short, at only 65,000 words. I don't want to make it bigger, and it will probably end up even shorter by the time it is published. I've decided the story is more important than word count.

The problem with long books is printing cost (God, did my editor love reminding me of printing cost). Selling price is often set fairly early in the process, and each additional set of pages (my editor told me the name frequently, along with how much each additional set would cost).

Ideally, to sell a first book, you want to fit within the 'normal' parameters. It makes it easier. It doesn't mean it's impossible to break the parameters. Tell your story, edit, and worry about your word count at the end.

Jim Clark-Dawe

Dave.C.Robinson · Feb 22, 2007

My first novel clocked in at 110K, my second (being revised and edited) is sitting around 90K. The first one's at a publisher waiting for the final decision. It doesn't appear that length was a problem.

Toothpaste · Feb 22, 2007

But Dave most publishers give 120 000 words as a top word count, so you are within the standard boundaries anyway. BTW congrats on your book, let us know what what happens!

Soccer Mom · Feb 22, 2007

True story. My first novel was 171K when I finished writing it. It was 100K when I finished editing. I now finish close to where I want it to be. Just worry about finishing the novel now and then address word count in editing.

jdparadise · Feb 22, 2007

More properly, you might have titled this post:

So what if your novel is longer than 100,000 words?

As in, "who cares?" Write the words that are needed to evoke the response you want to evoke from the reader. More than that are superfluous; less inadequate.

scarletpeaches · Feb 22, 2007

This is one of those 'how long is a piece of string' threads again.

Similar to 'how long is a chapter' and 'how many pages should my book have'?

J.S Greer · Feb 22, 2007

alaskamatt17 said:
A rule I first read in Stephen King's On Writing is: second draft = first draft - 10%. So far I've had no success with novels, but this rule does make my short stories a lot better every time I follow it.

Great book, and I agree with the 10% "Rule."

My ROUGH draft of my WIP is 154k words. I think Ill be closer to cutting 20% off of that in all honesty, but I will only cut what doesnt actually serve the story. I'd like to have it come in at a tight 120k.

I think if a new writer has a great book, the word count doesnt matter(within reason.)

Is my book great? I think it's good, with the possibility of being great, but thats not really up to me to decide.

Write it, and make it the best it can be. The 100k range is the most desired, but there have to be exceptions here and there if warranted.

Tri-Injuring Prophet · Feb 22, 2007

As others have said, worry about writing it first. Once it's done you can edit it down if needed. It'll likely have stuff cut anyway, since in a proper readthrough you'll notice things you think would be better left out. My first novel clocked in around 99,000 or so, and I expect my second rewrite to be 120,000 for the simple fact I added in needed plotlines. Adding more sideplots if they are needed also adds to it, but yes. Worry about the story as a whole.

Jamesaritchie · Feb 22, 2007

Length

onetiredmama said:
Knowing where my novel is going (that's a good thing, huh?) I know it's going to be longer than 100,000. Clearly some novels are longer than this, but does a longer word count put off agents/publishers? thanks, Lisa

Look at the guidelines for several publishers who handle your type of novel. Guidelines are how you know. If it's too long, cut it. Your final draft should probably be ten percent shorter than your first draft, anyway.

Novelhistorian · Feb 22, 2007

I disagree that guidelines are "how you know." Nobody knows, really. Sez me, if your book isn't wordy--which means it needs to be the length it is--it will pass muster, and the guidelines will be bent for you. And if your sample chapters are riveting, you'll get past the first hurdle with an agent or editor. The proof is in the words, not how many there are. On the other hand, I know a few romance writers who'd say that if you're writing for certain imprints, the length is ordained. So maybe that's an exception. But I think that writers who shy away from telling their stories because they've got a taxi meter in their heads tallying the word count will wind up telling someone else's story, not theirs.

blacbird · Feb 22, 2007

Answer to the question: Some agents, good reputable ones, will refuse to read your novel solely on the basis of length. A principal reason I'm trying to cut my current unpublishable novel down to 100,000 words is that I've had good reputable agents refuse to read the manuscript based, as they have clearly indicated, on its original submission length, which was around 120,000 words. It happens. You can assess your chances accordingly.

caw

Akuma · Feb 22, 2007

Is 100k considered long?

My WIP is at 76k and it still feels like I got a ton more in me.

Can't say I'm terribly worried; even if it gets huge, it's a first draft and lots will be cut in revision.

Toothpaste · Feb 22, 2007

100k isn't considered long. Don't most agents want a length between 65 000 and 120 000 typically?

So.. what if your novel is longer than 100,000 words?

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