Video games and novels?

BlueBadger · Feb 18, 2007

Hello everyone. I'm writing an article for 1UP.com (and it might show up in EGM as well) about storytelling in video games.

Basically, game plots tend to be cheesy. Not all of them, but the average RPG plot and cast of characters usually aren't something that climbs out of an editor's slush pile.

But they still hold massive appeal. When I was young, Nintendo games like Dragon Warrior and Zelda inspired me to write fanfiction (though I didn't know what it was at the time) and eventually, to forge my own worlds. Have any of you had the same experience? Are there any game stories you feel are worthy of publication? With perhaps a little fine-tuning, of course.

I'm especially interested to hear from those of you who've published novels, or are on their way. But everyone's welcome to respond and discuss. The more the merrier.

If this has a better fit in another forum, accept my apologies and flay me.

RG570 · Feb 18, 2007

I've read a couple over the years, and the only one that sticks out in my mind was this Wing Commander novel done by mercedes lackey and some other author.

It was cool at the time because, well, it's wing commander. But I don't know, that was just the novelty factor, I'm thinking. Strip away the fact that it's got a recognizable name on it, and not much is left.

A lot of video game stories are silly. And most of the ones that make it to novels are terrible. Anyone remember that Castlevania novel from way back? Then there was a recent Doom novel that really takes the cake for crappy writing.

Nah, in the end, it's tacky. I don't bother reading licenced crap, because there are far too many original works out there. Video games should stay video games; people are obsessed enough with their games already.

BlueBadger · Feb 18, 2007

Ha ha, I think the "Castlevania novel" was part of a series way back when. You're right, they were terrible. My husband owns the Mega Man 2 novel.

I had no idea Mersades Lackey wrote a Wing Commander novel. I could see that being enjoyable. I've not yet read any of the "modern" game-based novels, like Halo, but I've heard mixed reviews.

ChaosTitan · Feb 18, 2007

I think Warhammer has a series of tie-in novels.

PeeDee · Feb 18, 2007

There have been some decent video game stories. I enjoyed Half-Life 2's storyline, for example.

Nothing wrong with RPG storylines. SOmetimes, they're cliched. Sometimes not. Final Fantasy games have wonderful stories that I would read as books. Likewise, the Shadow Hearts games have great stories.

The Star Wars: Dark Forces games, when I was younger, were eventually novelized and I read them happily.

Mostly, though, I don't believe video games are taken seriously as a storytelling medium, something that I firmly believe they are. It's my goal, one day, to tell stories through video games. I'm interested the play mechanics and all that, but not as deeply as other people. Mostly, I just want to stretch the medium (which is what I think it is) and tell stories with it.

"Authors writing video games" attempts have been less than stellar in recent years. We had "Advent Children" a little while ago that was written by Orson Scott Card. The storyline was nothing spectacular, and the gameplay was about ten years too late. The idea is there, but not the practice.

(I wish I knew more video-game-building-inclined people. I have one very good friend who is very smart and a wonderful coder, and we slowly trudge toward building a solid game. I love the idea of working with a team and bringing out a game which is both fun, AND has a useful and creative story that we haven't already seen sixty times.)

johnzakour · Feb 18, 2007

Hi,

I haven't written a novel with video game characters, but I did write the american version of the video game 80 Days for Frogwares. I took much of my humor from my novels and put it in the game. Some people loved it calling it one of the funniest games of all time. Others hated it.

Jz

PeeDee · Feb 18, 2007

Mein gott. YOU did the stuff for "80 Days?" really?

That game had problematic graphics and collision detection, but I enjoyed the dialog no end. It rescued an iffy storyline. So, er, thanks.

johnzakour · Feb 18, 2007

PeeDee said:
Mein gott. YOU did the stuff for "80 Days?" really?

That game had problematic graphics and collision detection, but I enjoyed the dialog no end. It rescued an iffy storyline. So, er, thanks.

Yep I rewrote all the dialog. It's really difficult taking dialog in translated English and making it funny as you are constrained by what the characters are doing. Still it was quite fun.

http://www.gameboomers.com/interviews/Waelinterview.htm

Yes, the game had massive problems with collision detection that really hurt its chances.

BlueBadger · Feb 18, 2007

Yep I rewrote all the dialog. It's really difficult taking dialog in translated English and making it funny as you are constrained by what the characters are doing. Still it was quite fun.

That's really cool! I love talking to localisers. Their jobs always seem tough but interesting. You brought up a good point about the difficulties involved in translating games: It's very easy to lose things in the translation, and you're at the mercy of fans who say, "Hey, I know Japanese, and they changed this, this and this!"

I find Japanese tends to be a dry language, too. Would you say sometimes accuracy has to be sacrificed for the sake of coming up with something worth reading?

I've always been a big fan of Ted Woolsey's translations (though I have to admit Final Fantasy VI Advance's re-translation is very well done, too).

jodiodi · Feb 18, 2007

Well, speaking as someone who only plays certain kinds of games, i must say the best ones, imo, and ones that, if I could, I would write novels for, are the Silent Hill series of games (especially SH2), and the Fatal Frame games. Kuon was also a good game and the Onimusha games have potential for novels. I'm sure there are more I just can't think of off the top of my head.

As for SH, the movie was not the best representation of the game though it was decent. It could have been SOOOOOO much better.

swvaughn · Feb 18, 2007

We have a City of Heroes novel sitting around here somewhere...

Memnon624 · Feb 18, 2007

Dan Abnett's Warhammer 40K omnibus Eisenhorn is actually one of the finest SF books I've read, period. He's a great writer and he really brings the Warhammer world to life.

I'm also a on-again, off-again fan of the pastiche Conan novels from Tor and (more recently) Ace. Sometimes they're good, sometimes they're crap.

Scott

Lady Esther · Feb 18, 2007

The best storyline I've ever seen in a video game has to be Final Fantasy Tactics--hands down.

Zoombie · Feb 18, 2007

The Caiaphas Cain novels by Sandy Mitchael are both excellent sci-fi adventures comedies AND excellent Warhammer 40K adaptations.

And when it comes to video games, Japanese RPG's normally turn me off plot wise AND game play wise. But some classical American RPG's are excellent stories and games. Planescape: Torment is probably one of the best stories I've ever read. Fallout is another great...but the best game story I've played recently has to be Vampires: Bloodlines. Creepy and cool and it's got some of the best 'vampire politics' I've seen for a long time. And it's got some really creepy, sexy, and completely insane vampires.

What more do you want?

lfraser · Feb 18, 2007

The only D&D based books I've ever read that held my interest at all were Salvatore's Drow series and the Icewind Dale trilogy, which I read quite a long time ago. Most RPG storylines are just skeletons to hang lots of fighting and some cool loot onto, so there isn't really much in the way of ideas to write about. There are some notable exceptions, Planescape Torment being one. And at least the creators of Morrowind included some nice little story telling touches, such as the books that lie scattered all through the game. Some of those are quite entertaining.

My first choice for best video game story line would have to be Deus Ex (the original, stylishly-noir sci-fi thriller).

merper · Feb 18, 2007

I think the real change in terms of storylines will come when a big novel goes from book > game, if not instead of a movie, then at least around the same time as the movie. Of course, it would have to be the right book. Despite all the money Da Vinci code made, I doubt anyone could make a decent game out of that - though it might still be profitable if the developers could convince enough Christians to buy it to burn it. Another problem is making sure the game is non-linear enough so that the whole thing doesn't feel scripted. I liked HL2, but it wasn't quite the revolution they said it was. There needs to be some big advances in AI and random level generation before they can do that.

It'll get recognized as a genuine story media eventually though - the number of people playing games is going up and up each year.

engmajor2005 · Feb 18, 2007

Metal Gear Solid 3, God of War, Diablo and Diablo 2, Shadow of the Colossus, Thief, The Bard's Tale, Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, Fatal Frame 2, Resident Evil, the list goes on and on.

Yes, most games have cheesy stories. Most are full of clichés and stereotypes. But then again, so are most movies and novels. There are so many overdone stories that originality comes in the delivery, the twist that the storyteller put on it. To single games out for having weak stories is unfair.

In games, the focus is more on game play mechanics, but a well-told story breaks the wall between the gamer and player-character, thereby increasing the game play experience.

lfraser · Feb 18, 2007

How could I forget about Thief? That one was an original, and there was enough dark mythology and deep character in there for at least one decent book, in the right hands.

Novelust · Feb 18, 2007

I'll second the Fallout recommendation. I still live in futile hope that they'll band together to make a 3rd.

One of the great game stories is Douglas Adams's 'Bureaucracy.' It's an old-school text adventure, and it's one of the damn funniest and most confusing games I've ever played. There's a point where you have to go to the bank and present the teller with a check for negative seventy-five dollars, and a withdrawal slip, because the teller reasons that the opposite of a withdrawl is a deposit, and so withdrawing the negative must also be the opposite - then the teller credits your account. It's maddening and impossible. A thing of beauty.

Ooh, also? Psychonauts. A genuinely great, fun story, and an amazing game. (Anything by Tim Schaffer, really - Grim Fandango, Escape from Monkey Island - he's a pro.)

Zoombie · Feb 18, 2007

Grim Fandango blew my mind. Then I got stuck by a bug and beat my head against the computer screen.

Psychonaughts blew my mind as well, even more so than Grim Fandango...mostly in the "Milkman Conspiracy" Level. That level gave me a headach on every level possible. The men in black who would spray water out of their hats when they were lit on fire, to the sidewalk that would bend up and over your head...ugh. They had way to much fun with gravity in that game. Way, way way way too much fun with gravity.

Novelust · Feb 18, 2007

Oh, my God - every level in Psychonauts was completely different, and all of them were fun. I have to say that the Meat Circus got to me on some bizarre level - I was more freaked out by that than most horror games I've played. The Milkman Conspiracy made me laugh so hard - I used to be a Girl Scout, so there was a deeper level there for me.

Zoombie · Feb 18, 2007

I used to be a boy scout and that's kinda the same, but we sell popcorn instead of cookies and make larianets. I HATE LARIANETS! They're half the reason that I quick the boy scouts. The other half was the stupid ceremonies they put you though and the other other half was the fact that my troop didn't DO anything.

Wait...that makes 150% of a reason!

merper · Feb 19, 2007

I think the Lungfishopolis level was the best. Just too much fun tearing up the city, listening to all the Godzilla references.

WWWWolf · Feb 19, 2007

First, a question - am I the only person on the planet to have written Abuse fan fiction? I mean, the game had a wonderful atmosphere but absolutely no plot to speak of, which certainly afforded some leeway.

(No, I won't publish the text anywhere just yet. This was over ten years ago so it's horrible according to my current standards. The idea is weird enough that I might rewrite it any day now. *g*)

That said, I'm a great big fan of games with detailed plots and lots of dialogue. The first big PC game I got was Betrayal at Krondor, which is probably why this is so. The game shows that adding a little bit text everywhere makes a big impact in the experience. The game uses some narration even for simple actions. "You put item X in the sack" won't do as an acknowledgement message; instead the game describes what the character feels and does when temporarily abandoning the item X. Even little things like that make the game a lot more literature-like.

I really don't mind cliches and "simple" plots - well, anywhere, really - as long as there's some other things to keep the mind occupied. In literature, there's ways to get plot things twisted. In games, there's ways to keep people occupied... like actual gameplay.

Ugh, I could ramble on and on about this, but I would need a lot more coffee.

lfraser · Feb 19, 2007

It's true that some games do rise above simple hack and slash, but most of the time I play games when I want my brain to turn off for an hour or two. Every now and again I come across a game that has some strong horror elements, though. Last Year's Call of Cthulhu FPS, for instance, got the old heart going thumpety-thump, although it was somewhat lacking during the second half.

Video games and novels?

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