What to do when no book is like yours?

C.J. Rockwell · Feb 18, 2007

I'm always being told in my critiques to read books by published writers that are similar to mine. Easier said than done. Through this advice I've discovered some great stories but none were like what I write. The closesest I've ever come are books by Tor Seidler. Particularly A RAT's TALE and THE REVENGE OF RANDAL REESE RAT. I write for middle grade and YA primarily and this is something I deal with a lot.
Is it hard to find books similar to what you write?

Angelinity · Feb 18, 2007

...not quite sure what you mean by 'similar to mine'...

is your book unique as in 'wow!' -- or unique as in 'ohh...'?

what do you feel makes your book 'unique'? is it your writing style? the idea / plot / denouement...?

i would guess that those who suggested you read other published books in your genre may be trying to tell you there are aspects of your writing that need work before your stuff is ready to be published -- no tragedy there... that's true for 99% of writers.

if you want feedback from this forum, why don't you post a frag of your book in the Share Your Work? AWers are generous critters, and may give you some objective views.

PeeDee · Feb 18, 2007

Every book really is like every other book to a certain extent. It's unavoidable.

What you may be running into is, your mind's-eye view of your book isn't as accurate as you think (which could just be a lack of distance from your own project) or you just haven't read the book that's like yours yet.

It's never going to be EXACTLY like yours, I hope (or you're in trouble) but some books and some parts of books will be similar.

Hillgate · Feb 18, 2007

C.J. Rockwell said:
I'm always being told in my critiques to read books by published writers that are similar to mine. Easier said than done. Through this advice I've discovered some great stories but none were like what I write. The closesest I've ever come are books by Tor Seidler. Particularly A RAT's TALE and THE REVENGE OF RANDAL REESE RAT. I write for middle grade and YA primarily and this is something I deal with a lot.
Is it hard to find books similar to what you write?

You're either a genius or not being objective enough!

C.J. Rockwell · Feb 18, 2007

Angelinity said:
...not quite sure what you mean by 'similar to mine'...

is your book unique as in 'wow!' -- or unique as in 'ohh...'?

what do you feel makes your book 'unique'? is it your writing style? the idea / plot / denouement...?

i would guess that those who suggested you read other published books in your genre may be trying to tell you there are aspects of your writing that need work before your stuff is ready to be published -- no tragedy there... that's true for 99% of writers.

if you want feedback from this forum, why don't you post a frag of your book in the Share Your Work? AWers are generous critters, and may give you some objective views.

It's not so bad when it's your first or second draft, in fact it's very helpful. But when it gets to be the sixth draft and you're still being told these things, you start to wonder what you're still doing wrong. I know my story's good, but if no one who's commented wants to read beyond the first two paragraphs, no one will know but me.

Sorry for my rambling, I'm very grateful for those who helped me get this far, but sometimes you just have those days...

I have posted the first chapter of my middle grade novel here, and after hearing some feedback on what was slowing it down, I thought I'd fixed up. Then today I hear it's still not there yet. Here's a jist of it-

The problems that I'm seeing are in the mechanics of your writing, which, happily, can be fixed. Read similar stories by published writers and pay close attention to the way that they describe things and move their characters around…specifically the logical manner in which a character's action leads to a consequence which requires further action leading to further consequences, and so on.

I hope that clarifies it better.

veinglory · Feb 18, 2007

The similarity may be in theme or writing style rather than content. You are jst trying to let them know it is the sort of book they handle and the sort of book that has a readership.

Linda Adams · Feb 18, 2007

Look for elements in books--not the books themselves--that are similar, even outside the genre. The book I'm querying to agents now is a thriller with a kick butt action heroine, and there, frankly, aren't any books like that in thriller. But there are in urban fantasy, so I'm targeting agents who take both urban fantasy and thriller with something like, "I'm a fan of the kick butt action heroine of one of your clients, Jane Smith."

The_Grand_Duchess · Feb 18, 2007

I have read your chaps. I think that you need to broden you reading scope. It's not just books that involve talking animals that you need to look into but also books that deal with the same themes.

PeeDee · Feb 18, 2007

The_Grand_Duchess said:
I have read your chaps. I think that you need to broden you reading scope. It's not just books that involve talking animals that you need to look into but also books that deal with the same themes.

I had to read "chaps" three times before I realized you meant chapters.

THAT was a weird moment.

Toothpaste · Feb 18, 2007

Oh PeeDee, you so funny!

I agree with what has been said above. It is important to stop thinking that no one out there has a book like yours, the second you do you'll finally find all the books out there that have something in common with you book. This isn't a bad thing at all. There are no new ideas out there, there just aren't. And it isn' t like you'll find your exact book out there either. While changing this mindset might make you think that you are like everyone else and what is the point in trying to publish, it is actually a sign that you are actually closer to your goal, in that you can look at your work objectively and understand what you yourself are writing about.

Like others have said, check out other genres. I'd like to have a look at your chapters to see maybe if I can offer up any suggestions, where is it on SYW?

PeeDee · Feb 18, 2007

Talking animals? Okay, you have something in common with Chronicles of Narnia, Watership Down, The Redwall Books, The Hobbit, the Lord of the Rings, Anne Mcaffery's books, Andre Norton's books, and half a dozen others I'm forgetting.

"But my book isn't really LIKE any of those."

Of course not. It's YOUR book, not Andre Norton's. That's the point. If you found a book that matched yours perfectly then as I said, you'd be in trouble.

My serial has robots in it. That means I have something in common with Isaac Asimov.

I'm fairly certain I am NOT writing like Asimov, however.

icerose · Feb 18, 2007

It sounds like (judging from the comments alone) that perhaps you aren't writing for the genre very well. Pick up young adults and look at the elements. Description, action, show vs tell, vocabulary, age groups, dialog, rather than actual story elements.

ChaosTitan · Feb 18, 2007

Can I just chime in to recommend Tor Seidler's books to everyone here? I wrote my only author fan letter to Tor way back when I was in sixth grade. I received a lovely hand-written letter in return, and it is still something I treasure.

C.J. Rockwell said:
The problems that I'm seeing are in the mechanics of your writing, which, happily, can be fixed. Read similar stories by published writers and pay close attention to the way that they describe things and move their characters around…specifically the logical manner in which a character's action leads to a consequence which requires further action leading to further consequences, and so on.

Bold mine. I could be misinterpreting this, but it sounds like your crits are telling you to study up on sequence of events. How a story unfolds and progresses from scene to scene. Make sure that your character is involved in the action, and that it isn't happen to him/her and s/he isn't just a spectator.

You don't necessarily need to stick to talking-animal books for this. Other YA books with similar stories will help you break down the mechanics. The best way to learn is to be widely read.

C.J. Rockwell · Feb 18, 2007

Toothpaste said:
Oh PeeDee, you so funny!

I agree with what has been said above. It is important to stop thinking that no one out there has a book like yours, the second you do you'll finally find all the books out there that have something in common with you book. This isn't a bad thing at all. There are no new ideas out there, there just aren't. And it isn' t like you'll find your exact book out there either. While changing this mindset might make you think that you are like everyone else and what is the point in trying to publish, it is actually a sign that you are actually closer to your goal, in that you can look at your work objectively and understand what you yourself are writing about.

Like others have said, check out other genres. I'd like to have a look at your chapters to see maybe if I can offer up any suggestions, where is it on SYW?

Thanks Toothpaste, you can find my lastest retooling of my first chapter in the children's section in the SYW area under this title-

"Middle Grade prologue and chapter 1 (I finally know my age range!) pt 4 "

Thanks for everyone's comments, it sure has given me a lot of new ideas of what I can do, because before the well was running dry after trying everything I know.

Guess I have some serious reading to do (I can't wait!), and I swear I'm not being sarcastic.

C.J. Rockwell · Feb 18, 2007

chaostitan said:
Can I just chime in to recommend Tor Seidler's books to everyone here? I wrote my only author fan letter to Tor way back when I was in sixth grade. I received a lovely hand-written letter in return, and it is still something I treasure.

Bold mine. I could be misinterpreting this, but it sounds like your crits are telling you to study up on sequence of events. How a story unfolds and progresses from scene to scene. Make sure that your character is involved in the action, and that it isn't happen to him/her and s/he isn't just a spectator.

You don't necessarily need to stick to talking-animal books for this. Other YA books with similar stories will help you break down the mechanics. The best way to learn is to be widely read.

Hey, great to meet another Tor Seidler fan, I can't wait to read more of his work. I've always loved stories and tv shows with talking animals since I was a kid, so I think that's why it's a majority of what I write. I did think about at one point using an all human cast, but it would loose something.

Incidently I've pledged that I will write a story this year that focuses people without adding tap-dancing caterpillars into the mix, so it something to think about.

JanDarby · Feb 18, 2007

You might check out Terry Pratchett's The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents.

JD

weatherfield · Feb 18, 2007

Hi C.J.,

I'm a big fan of YA and middle grade and, even though I'm kind of late, I wanted to chime in here. I agree with some of the other commenters, in that you may be limiting yourself by thinking about this too specifically, and that no book will be exactly like the one you are writing. However, I read your opening and I have some more suggestions for books you might want to look at if you haven't already.

Some really good middle grade books, specifically about sentient mice and rats, are Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of Nimh and Harry Cat's Pet Puppy. Both address issues of belonging, coexisting with humans, and living as outcasts while simultaneously striving for a solution to a larger problem.

Resentment, oppression, and forbidden friendship come into play in Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry (T.J. Avery's “friendship” with Melvin and R.W. Simms, vs. the Logan children's genuine friendship with Jeremy Simms), and in Number the Stars, a book about friendship and loyalty in Nazi-occupied Denmark. Annie on My Mind is written for an older readership, but it addresses some huge issues regarding social norms and ostracization (two high school girls fall in love and, in the face of social and family pressures, struggle to be faithful to their own feelings).

There is also a wonderful series of picture books by Graham Oakley, called The Church Mice Books. Most of them are out of print now, but a reasonably-sized library should still have them. Although they are intended for a younger audience, Oakley explores ideas about community and companionship, as well as providing a good dose of humor (and Best Pictures Ever

).

Anyway, I don't think you need to be looking specifically at middle grade Talking Animal books, but, as PeeDee pointed out, they're definitely around if you want them. I do think that you might be well served by looking at books addressing what happens when characters violate social constraints, and there are plenty of those too.

Good luck!

jclarkdawe · Feb 18, 2007

C.J. Rockwell said:
I write for middle grade and YA primarily and this is something I deal with a lot.
Is it hard to find books similar to what you write?

You've picked one of the hardest groups of people to write for. A wide variation in reading skills and the attention span of a nat. Trying to keep a high school student focused is difficult (I know -- been there, done that) and I won't deal with middle school students any more than I have to.

I've looked at some of the comments on your chapter, and my reaction is that you're not writing to your readers. One suggestion I'd make to you is talk to a children's librarian. They know your market and what works and what doesn't. See if you can do some reading to children. Even if they're younger than your target age group, it will give you an entirely new prospective on the dynamics of reading a book. It's interesting with young children's books how some seem to be sold to the parents and others seem to be sold to the children.

It might help your writing to imagine that you're writing and reading the book to your child (either real or imaginary). Focus on entertaining them, not educating them or anything else. To be frank with you, I think if I were to try to read your book to a group of middle schoolers, I'd be a target for spitballs and whatever other trouble they could come up with. Although you're book may not be meant to be read aloud, if it works that way, it works for silent reading. Whenever I write anything, I write it to someone.

There are tons of books that generally are similar to yours.

You've accomplished a lot. You've taken an idea and made it into a book. From the sounds of it, this is the first time you've done it. Most people don't make it that far. Unfortunately, for many authors, our first novel is only something that fills slush piles or trash heaps. That's why you write the second (and third (and fourth (and so on and so forth until you get one that works))). Best of luck.

Jim Clark-Dawe

Sean D. Schaffer · Feb 18, 2007

C.J. Rockwell said:
I'm always being told in my critiques to read books by published writers that are similar to mine. Easier said than done. Through this advice I've discovered some great stories but none were like what I write. The closesest I've ever come are books by Tor Seidler. Particularly A RAT's TALE and THE REVENGE OF RANDAL REESE RAT. I write for middle grade and YA primarily and this is something I deal with a lot.
Is it hard to find books similar to what you write?

Not really. It depends on the genre you work in. So if your book is a Fantasy, you would look for other like books in the Fantasy/Science-Fiction section of your bookstore.

Since you work in mostly middle grade and YA, I would suggest looking for 'similar' books according to the genre you're working in.

I hope this helps. Good luck to you.

ETA:
I believe E.B. White wrote a book about just such a subject you're referring to. It was entitled Stewart Little, if I'm not mistaken.

C.J. Rockwell · Feb 18, 2007

jclarkdawe said:
You've accomplished a lot. You've taken an idea and made it into a book. From the sounds of it, this is the first time you've done it. Most people don't make it that far. Unfortunately, for many authors, our first novel is only something that fills slush piles or trash heaps. That's why you write the second (and third (and fourth (and so on and so forth until you get one that works))). Best of luck.

Jim Clark-Dawe

This is actually the third try. I had put this story aside for months and it was only last month that I gave a look and saw what I thought it needed. I thought I finally had a breakthrough, but I guess it's still very rough.

Maybe without meaning to I'm not writing to my target readers, but I did write a story I believe in and that must count for something.

PeeDee · Feb 18, 2007

C.J. Rockwell said:
Maybe without meaning to I'm not writing to my target readers, but I did write a story I believe in and that must count for something.

It counts for quite a lot, actually.

skelly · Feb 18, 2007

C.J., all best wishes to you bro, like I said in the crit that I gave your story which you have quoted here (rather than responding to me there) and which obviously did not sit well with you. You are putting more than a few carts ahead of your horses, my friend. There are fundamental issues that I think you would do well to address before you worry over the seeming uniqueness and potential unmarketability per this or that age group etc. and so forth.

I know it is frustrating, but I really wish you would consider the things that I and others have tried to tell you concerning the portions of this story that you have posted. As opposed to dismissing--albeit politely--everything we tell you.

C.J. Rockwell · Feb 18, 2007

skelly said:
C.J., all best wishes to you bro, like I said in the crit that I gave your story which you have quoted here (rather than responding to me there) and which obviously did not sit well with you. You are putting more than a few carts ahead of your horses, my friend. There are fundamental issues that I think you would do well to address before you worry over the seeming uniqueness and potential unmarketability per this or that age group etc. and so forth.

I know it is frustrating, but I really wish you would consider the things that I and others have tried to tell you concerning the portions of this story that you have posted. As opposed to dismissing--albeit politely--everything we tell you.

I'm sorry, I just wanted to get some ideas of what to read, I guess I phrased my question wrong. I have listened to what everyone's said and I simply don't know what to do. I think things got a little out of hand with this topic.

I apologize to everyone who's posted if I've been rude or unkind, and I really have listened to what you had to say.

I feel a lot better now, maybe I just need a break.

Sage · Feb 18, 2007

More rodent novel suggestions: The Mouse and the Motorcycle, Runaway Ralph, & Ralph S. Mouse.

ChaosTitan · Feb 18, 2007

CJ, I don't think you've been rude at all. Perhaps feedback garnered in SYW should have been discussed there (or via PM), but you posted with a genuine question about improving your work, and I hope our suggestions get you started.

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