Expletives

Lifelongdagger · Feb 18, 2007

I've just written my first short story, titled 'My Mate Tel' and posted on the Mystery/Suspense section of SYW. It contains a fair amount of expletives. I tried it without, but the mc seemed to lose his edge, become less real. I wondered what the general concensus was on expletives in short stories and novels?

scarletpeaches · Feb 18, 2007

If your character would say it, you write it.

Lifelongdagger · Feb 18, 2007

That's what I thought, thanks scarletpeaches.

loquax · Feb 18, 2007

What Scarlet said is pretty much the rule....

but if you're submitting to a market which might frown upon their use, there's nothing to stop you from removing them and still having a great piece. This happens with TV and movies all the time. There's no swearing whatsoever in 24 or Prison Break, and that's pretty insane when you think about it. But both come off pretty successfully. What you need to ask yourself is whether the "edge" is because of the swear words only. And if it is, maybe you want to change something so the character comes through without the need to use them.

emeraldcite · Feb 18, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
If your character would say it, you write it.

With a caveat: make sure it advances, in a meaningful way, plot and character.

If you have a character release a long string of expletives for no reason, you might turn some readers off. A few well-placed expletives will still maintain the effect.

Sometimes, less is more. I'm no prude, but occasionally, too much swearing just seems out of place.

janetbellinger · Feb 18, 2007

As a r eader, I don't mind a few expletives but get turned off if it's overdone.

PeeDee · Feb 18, 2007

I use them like I see them used in real life. Which doesn't mean I load my story with expletives. The sort of people who swear every other word tend not to be individuals I would write a story about.

(And if this sounds like stereotyping..well...it is. The only ones who come in swearing every other word are twenty-something teenager punk boys. Everyone else swears, but in limited usage, as needed.)

Mostly, I don't use them in my stories, because mostly I don't need them. I'm okay with that. I've had a couple of people tell me my stories aren't 'adult' unless I put some swearing in, but I suspect they're twits and I keep on going.

scarletpeaches · Feb 18, 2007

I once wrote a whole book without using one single swear word. The furthest I went was:

He scowled. "You sarcastic bi-"
"Don't! Just don't you dare insulting me again."

Just to see if I could do it of course.

However, some characters I write about DO swear, so I write what they say.

Ignore PeeDee, he writes about fluffy bunnies. However, what he fails to tell you is they moonlight in a series of James Patterson thrillers when his back's turned, and they say "Arse!" a lot.

johnzakour · Feb 18, 2007

Besides my made up swear words of "DOS" and "GATES" I tend to avoid them in my writing, but if they work in context then use them.

ChaosTitan · Feb 18, 2007

Many of my characters are like me when it comes to swearing: I don't do it often, but when I do, it's for a good reason.

Sure, "damn" and "hell" pop up every now and again, but if a character is going to drop the f-bomb, they are either very angry, very sad, or very...um, randy.

Sage · Feb 18, 2007

Some of the characters in my current & last novel swear just a little more than I do, but that's because they're the type of people who would swear more than me. I won't use the F-word in my novels though, & had to convince myself that since a certain character would say all of S.O.B., I couldn't get away with having him use the initials. I used to not swear at all, & it took a lot of writing before I grew comfortable enough to actually write anything more serious than "dammit." Even so, my characters don't use them that much, except Hell, but that's a location in the novel.

maestrowork · Feb 18, 2007

Be true to your characters, but do practice moderation.

Hillgate · Feb 18, 2007

maestrowork said:
Be true to your characters, but do practice moderation.

Especially on page 1 !

imagegod · Feb 18, 2007

I don't disagree with Scarletpeaches...necessarily. I just think that understanding when and where expletives are appropiate can be difficult to discern. And I mean artistically appropriate.

Expletives are 'loaded' words...they're loaded with an inordinate amount of mean. Finding the appropiate context isn't always easy...neither for real or fictional people. That is, 'cursing' can be an artform all its own. Learning to 'curse' in fiction can be an art inside of Art.

But it's fun to think about!

maestrowork · Feb 18, 2007

imagegod said:
Expletives are 'loaded' words...they're loaded with an inordinate amount of mean. Finding the appropiate context isn't always easy...neither for real or fictional people. That is, 'cursing' can be an artform all its own. Learning to 'curse' in fiction can be an art inside of Art.

Can't we say that about every aspect of writing, or art in general?

scribbler1382 · Feb 18, 2007

Listen to your characters, both in first draft and revision.

Personally, I think "avoiding" or "forcing" anything in your writing is a bad idea and will come off as disingenuous to the reader. But with that said, I have personally made changes to suit a market. But I think when you're writing (as opposed to marketing), my original opinion stands.

Sean D. Schaffer · Feb 18, 2007

I remember a book I really enjoyed, in which the 'F' word appeared maybe three times. It was an Anne McCaffrey hardcover I had called Dragonsdawn and it was one of her Dragonriders of Pern books.

The fact that the word appeared as late in the book as it did, as well as so few times--all in one chapter, as I recall--gave an effect of shock and surprise, but at the same time, it was not a bad effect. The minimal use of just the right words really made the book come to life more to me than if it had been used throughout the book.

So I'm of the opinion that moderation is a good thing where profanity is concerned. It increases, at least by my own estimation, the enjoyment of a work and doesn't turn me off to a piece quite as quickly, because the profanity is strategically placed in the work instead of strewn throughout for no reason.

MattW · Feb 18, 2007

One of the things I like about GRR Martin is his swearing. For fantasy, and for a series populated with lewd knights and brutal nobles, certain characters swear up a storm (as appropriate).

Someone who just slaughtered a village and raped the women doesn't say "aw shucks." Conversely, sheltered children are shocked when the brutal reality and verbiage of their world is revealed to them.

FloVoyager · Feb 18, 2007

If it fits the character and the situation, I'll use it. If not, I won't.

Dave.C.Robinson · Feb 18, 2007

When writing outside our culture, I use curse words appropriate to the setting. In one novel the most common expletive is "Hammer it!" a reference to the Hammer of the Forger (the divine creator in that culture).

Otherwise I use them when they're the best word-- but try not to go overboard.

Siddow · Feb 18, 2007

My favorite bit of advice about this comes from Self Editing for Fiction Writers: Imagine the power an expletive has if it's the only one in the whole fu*king book.

It was the only one in that book. And it was very powerful.

Personally, I don't care for them in narration, but I can tolerate them in dialog. As long as it's not f-ing this and f-ing that and that b-ho, etc. Less is more.

sfecphory · Feb 19, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
If your character would say it, you write it.

Amen. My father-in-law once questioned why a character in one of my short stories said "F#$%." Before I could answer, my brother-in-law yelled "Because that's how people F#$%ing talk, Dad!"

Penguin Queen · Feb 19, 2007

sfecphory said:
Amen. My father-in-law once questioned why a character in one of my short stories said "F#$%." Before I could answer, my brother-in-law yelled "Because that's how people F#$%ing talk, Dad!"

My characters are as foul-mouthed as me. I like a bit of swearing when it's done with feeling, when it's in its right place, and when it's carried off with either style or humour.

Pagey's_Girl · Feb 19, 2007

I have one character who almost never uses anything stronger than "damn it!" but can still tell someone off very nicely when she needs to. It forces a little creativity to have a character tell someone off without resorting to f-bombs.

Her best friend, on the other hand, is notoriously foul-mouthed, although half the time she's telling someone off in French, not English. It allows for a little more humor when the other characters are speculating on what on earth she just actually said...

That said, it just goes back to what works with the story and the character.

Judg · Feb 19, 2007

An expletive to me is like a pile of doggie, um, doodoo on the lawn. I can walk around it and hold my nose. And it tells me that a dog has been there. If I can't get out the front door without stepping in a pile every time I put my foot down, I will go out the back door. I close a book if it imposes swear words on me on every page. I'll tolerate the odd one here and there.

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