Using Real Persons in Novels

gwendy85 · Feb 6, 2007

I think there was a thread on this before.

But I was wondering what are the legalities of using actual persons in novels?

I'm writing a World War II Novel, and I observed in a few books (Winds of War, War and Remembrance & Flight of Eagles to name a few) mentioned some famous personalities and even used them as characters (Eisenhower, Heinreich Himmler, Hitler etc). I planned on using some Japanese high officials in mine, and perhaps a section with Douglas McArthur in it.

Any input? :e2shrug:

aruna · Feb 6, 2007

It sounds as if these persons are dead. If so it's Ok to use them.
I'd be very careful about using living persons, however.

SJAB · Feb 6, 2007

I think you need to be careful in what light you show real people with regards to historical fiction even if they are dead. There was a lot of upset and outcry concerning William Murdoch, first officer of the Titanic, and the way he was shown in the most recent film version of the event.

Best to research how other authors have handled the same situation.

JimmyB27 · Feb 6, 2007

Robert Rankin's Armageddon trilogy features Elvis Presley teaming up with a time travelling brussel sprout called Barry.

No, really -

http://www.sproutlore.com/reviews/reviews.php?review=13

britwrit · Feb 6, 2007

First, make sure they're dead...

Back in the 1990s, David Leavitt wrote a novel based in part on the life of poet Stephen Spender, "While England Sleeps." While he intended it to be something of a tribute, Spender didn't see it that way and sued him in England for libel and plagarism. They later settled out of court and they had to reissue the novel with the offending passages cut out and/or rewritten.

scarletpeaches · Feb 6, 2007

JimmyB27 said:
Robert Rankin's Armageddon trilogy features Elvis Presley teaming up with a time travelling brussel sprout called Barry.

No, really -

http://www.sproutlore.com/reviews/reviews.php?review=13

I wonder how the sprout feels about being used in such a commercialised way.

And don't forget Nostradamus and the rodent-based slur on his good name.

Hillgate · Feb 6, 2007

Even dead people have people watching/protecting their estates or legacy so be a little careful.

As for the likes of Himmler, I don't think there's much you could write about him that wouldn't improve him, the snivelling little chicken-farming dweeb. It's a shame Himmler's little patch didn't have bird-flu back in '33.

You see? No-one's coming to get me, are they?

Shit. There's someone at the door. Listen, gotta

aruna · Feb 6, 2007

A couple weeks ago a poster called CleanSlate said something about dead people's estates protesting. If someonw wants to look it up...

johnzakour · Feb 6, 2007

It can be tricky but it can be done. (Though you may want to consult a lawyer. Certainly your publisher will consult with their lawyers.)

I use Bill Gate's name in my books as kind of a slang / swear word, along with DOS as another one. I have Elvis clones and Oprah clones. I mention the Clintons and Reagan. I'm always careful to bath them in "fun" light not in a bad way.

jonereb · Feb 6, 2007

Dean Koontz uses Elvis in his Odd Thomas series. However, Elvis is apparently moving on and Frank Sinatra will take his place.

jonereb · Feb 6, 2007

How about the use of cartoon characters or advertising characters -- things that are copyrighted? I'd assume this would present legal problems.

Pagey's_Girl · Feb 6, 2007

Here's a couple of links that might be of interest...

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=11551

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hilden/20051206.html

This discussion came up awhile back on a band fiction board I belong to, and the admin and several of our members did a lot of informal research on it.

And if you really feel like plowing through something, here's something else...

http://lawreview.byu.edu/archives/1992/3/gol.pdf

PattiTheWicked · Feb 6, 2007

I do have some characters interacting with real historical figures in one of my WIPs. However, Marcus Aurelius has been dead for a pretty long time, and I doubt that any of his kin and clan will be hitting me with a lawsuit any time soon. I'm not overly concerned about it.

On another note, a lot of the chick-lit genre seems to include actual living people in it, as part of pop culture. ("So we went to this really trendy club, and then we decided it wasn't really trendy at all because the Donald was there.")

Jamesaritchie · Feb 6, 2007

Names

You can be sued for doing darned near anything. You can be sued, in fact, for doing nothing. But if they're dead, use them. Some may protest, but that's the way it goes. It would be a pretty strange novel that was set in the past, but that had no historic people.

LeeFlower · Feb 6, 2007

IANAL, But I've always been told that you cannot libel the dead (in the US, at least). So it might ruffle some feathers, but legally you'd be in the clear so long as the person in question is pushing up daisies.

Assuming my information is correct, of course. Which might be a bad thing to do.

sfecphory · Feb 6, 2007

I was just reading yesterday that someone's book, about to be published, was being changed because he had written it using actual people (hockey players, strangely enough) in the story. The players were not amused. But, since everyone you seem interested in using is dead, I say go for it.

Cav Guy · Feb 6, 2007

It's very common in historical fiction to use actual people in the work, even as POV characters or main characters. The trick is to keep them as close to their "real" selves as possible. If you stick to historical facts and what can be reasonably assumed about the mindset of those involved, you should be fine.

BruceJ · Feb 6, 2007

I have real people in mine. It's 9th-8th century BC, though, so I figure I'm safe from anything other than maybe supernatural reprisal.

Evaine · Feb 6, 2007

I've just read a short story which features Glenn Miller having a vision of his brother just before the fatal flight to Paris takes off. The brother is trying to persuade him to get off the plane.
Very good - by Stephen Baxter.
If we worried about a vague possibility of being sued every time we mentioned anything, we'd never write anything worth reading, would we?

gwendy85 · Feb 6, 2007

Thanks for all the replies!

Actually, what got me worried is I'm using this person to do a somewhat brutal scene. His name is Colonel Nagahama, the Kempeitai Commander of the Philippines in the later part of WWII. I don't know his real personality or his full name as for now. But my scene involves him shooting 4 guerillas in the head at point blank range, then yelling at a subordinate for hesitating to shoot (he had to do it himself).

Guess it's back to googling, but what do u think?

JeanneTGC · Feb 7, 2007

Yeah, I'd Google some more. Goes back to making sure you're representing the real person as accurately as you can. And this general could easily have descendents who would NOT be pleased that you're showing him to be a bloodthirsty murderer.

I do write historicals, and the thing I ask myself before using a real person is -- can I get a BETTER story arc/scene if I use a real person or one I've made up myself? Many times it's better with a real person, but just as many times it's better with a completely fictional one.

Judg · Feb 7, 2007

gwendy85 said:
Thanks for all the replies!

Actually, what got me worried is I'm using this person to do a somewhat brutal scene. His name is Colonel Nagahama, the Kempeitai Commander of the Philippines in the later part of WWII. I don't know his real personality or his full name as for now. But my scene involves him shooting 4 guerillas in the head at point blank range, then yelling at a subordinate for hesitating to shoot (he had to do it himself).

Guess it's back to googling, but what do u think?

I personally object strongly when historical fiction distorts history. If you don't know that this general was that kind of person, don't make him that way in your book. If you know for a fact that incidents like that occurred (and from what little I know about the Japanese military of the time, it seems quite probable), but not who specifically did them, invent a character.

Fiction is very powerful. It creates much more vivid pictures in people's heads than the vast majority of history books do. I therefore think it's unethical for an author or movie-maker to portray historical figures inaccurately (yes, Oliver Stone, I'm looking at you), most especially when it comes to criminal behaviour. It makes no sense to me to obsess about what kind of buttons a character would have and then misrepresent who they were. This to me is fundamental ethics. Be truthful to what is known of any real person. I mean, how would you feel if someone wrote a book depicting your grandfather as a loathsome criminal if there isn't a shred of evidence for it? The Golden Rule has always been an excellent guide.

Legally, I don't think you can get in trouble for presenting a character performing criminal acts if they were known to do so. But I'm not a lawyer and common sense does not always rule in courtrooms.

TheGaffer · Feb 7, 2007

Indeed, did this incident happen, and is it documented? Because then you're not going to run into trouble by trying to project his/her thoughts onto the written page. If you're unsure, or this didn't happen, change the guy's name.

Simply mentioning people who existed at the time -- even cartoon characters -- does not present a problem. "We were watching Krazy Kat when..." is not an issue. Writing a story about Bugs Bunny going off on a bender would be an issue.

gwendy85 · Feb 7, 2007

Research on Nagahama

Well guys, my research on Nagahama is actually going well. He's somewhat ruthless. Here's a tidbit and please tell me the vibe you can get(THIS IS NOT FROM MY NOVEL, BUT AN ACTUAL ACCOUNT):

“It will give me the greatest pleasure to arrest General Manuel A. Roxas (will be a Philippine President after the war), personally, and cut off his head with this sword.” Thus spoke Nagahama of the Kempeitai. Place - Malacañan. Interlocutor-President Jose P.Laurel.

When? Late in 1944.

“But why?” Laurel asked as he watched Nagahama sheathe his keen-edged samurai sword.

“There is evidence a-plenty that Roxas is the chief of the guerrilla movement in the Philippines,” replied Nagahama with a hiss.

The evidence was graphic and conclusive in the dark, medieval mind of that Japanese colonel. He knew of the deeply mysterious movement of the underground - at least in Luzon.

--SIC--

And Laurel knew what Roxas’ execution by Nagahama would mean. It would signify a full-dress revolution in Laurel’s hands. And so with characteristic and perfect aplomb, Laurel replied to the perfidious Nagahama, “If you wish to kill Roxas, kill me first.”

--SIC--

Jimbo was credited with having saved the life of Roxas, which was constantly being threatened by the dreadful Kempeitai of Col. Nagahama.

--SIC--

As far as I'm getting, this guy's ruthless enough to shoot men at point blank range, as I've described. I'll search some more, but what vibe can you guys get?

AncientEagle · Feb 7, 2007

JeanneTGC said:
And this general could easily have descendents who would NOT be pleased that you're showing him to be a bloodthirsty murderer.

You just arbitrarily promoted him from colonel to general, but I don't think they'd complain about that.

Using Real Persons in Novels

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