Using Someone Else's Ideas

peevy · Feb 1, 2007

My work in progress is set in a small community where everything has to be be re-used, recycled, etc. I read a couple of non-fiction books about sustainability that put forth some great ideas on things like how people might re-use old shoes, how to make bio-degrable couches, etc. and I wanted to use those ideas in my storyworld.

So what are the legal ramifications on that? I know that you can't copyright an idea--just the way the idea is used--but if I put this writer's ideas into my novel, is that still crossing the line?

I know the authors actually did end up designing and selling bio-degradable couches. Does that mean I can't have that in my novel?

Cath · Feb 1, 2007

If they're referring to actual things, eg couches, I don't see why you shouldn't include them.

It sounds like you just want to borrow their things for props, I don't see a problem with that - as long as you don't pretend to invent them yourself.

peevy · Feb 1, 2007

It seems inevitable that I would imply they are my creations, unless I reference the book or something.

icerose · Feb 1, 2007

In the acknowledgements section I would think of including those inventors. I don't see how listing their ideas under their names would be any problem.

Cath · Feb 1, 2007

I agree with icerose - perhaps acknowledging them in some way would be good.

But

If a biodegradable couch is actually available for use, how does this make it any different from an ordinary couch? Do you need to ask the inventors of the couch for permission to give your characters something to sit on?

You're writing fiction, I assume?

peevy · Feb 1, 2007

Cath said:
If a biodegradable couch is actually available for use, how does this make it any different from an ordinary couch? Do you need to ask the inventors of the couch for permission to give your characters something to sit on?

You're writing fiction, I assume?

That's what I was thinking. It's like referring to soda--someone else invented it, but you can still write about it.

But bio-d couches aren't nearly as common as something like soda, so it seems more like stealing.

Cath · Feb 1, 2007

The makers of biodegradable couches might see it as a good promotional tool.

MidnightMuse · Feb 1, 2007

That writer didn't event biodegradibility, or couches. Thomas Crapper invented the flushing toilet, that doesn't mean I have to reference him if my characters use the John.

If my character drives a 1965 Mustang, I don't credit Ford.

Have at it, I'm sure you're fine. If you're worried, mention it to the agent who falls in love with the story, and let her/him worry for you.

peevy · Feb 1, 2007

Cath said:
The makers of biodegradable couches might see it as a good promotional tool.

Haha, true. I'm actually less worried about them and more worried that other people will think I'm an idea theif.

peevy · Feb 1, 2007

MidnightMuse said:
If my character drives a 1965 Mustang, I don't credit Ford.

More good points. But Mustangs and toilets are already well-known.

Cath · Feb 1, 2007

Well, when the book's a bestseller and everyone says "where did you come up with your ideas?" That's when you credit these guys.

peevy · Feb 1, 2007

Cath said:
Well, when the book's a bestseller and everyone says "where did you come up with your ideas?" That's when you credit these guys.

Yeah, and then they can mention me in the new edition of their book and we will both boost our sales.

JeanneTGC · Feb 1, 2007

If the item is an existing product and you are referring to it in passing, not trying to claim that a character of yours created it, then there should be no issue.

There is nothing wrong with a writer looking at a new product or invention that is out there already in the public -- available for purchase, use, etc. -- and using it in a story. Showing the product in an unflattering light could be an issue, but just don't use a real brand name and again, you're covered.

You should be so lucky to get the buzz around your story where folks are wondering what came first, your story or the biodegradable couch.

peevy · Feb 1, 2007

JeanneTGC said:
If the item is an existing product and you are referring to it in passing, not trying to claim that a character of yours created it, then there should be no issue.

What about the shoe idea, which hasn't yet been turned into a real product but is just an idea these authors have put forth?

Old Hack · Feb 1, 2007

There are so many ways to recycle things, and to live sustainably, that you could just invent your own ideas for this, you know. Just a thought.

Here are a few real ones whihc are pretty common, and I don't think are exclusive to anyone. I saw fantastic sandals once which had been made from old car tyres. Gorgeous, they were, and very comfortable. I bought a storm lantern (which ran off parrafin) which had been made from old anchovy tins. And we've used the innards of an old sofa-bed to build a compost container. Fabulous, it was, until the sheep killed it.

Another example: we rely on a wind turbine for our power, as our house is off-grid. We have a big bank of batteries which the turbine charges up, which our house runs on; when the batteries are full, you need a "dump load" to dump all the power that's generated until the batteries need more recharging. Most people use an electric water heater, but we have enough hot water; so we power up storage heaters for our dump load, and soon we'll be adding another dump load to pump water from our rainwater tanks up into the attic to use it to flush the toilets. Now we're up for an award for our innovative attitude to sustainable living. Who'd have thought?

AnAirplane · Feb 1, 2007

The way I see it, if you're taking the idea from non-fiction, it's pretty much free to use; that is, if biodegradable couches exist, and the characters would use them, go ahead. You can always spin the idea a bit in the story.

Now, if the thing in question is purely speculative or fictional, you might have a problem. Basically, you probably can't go throwing in Soylent Green or Infinite Improbability Drives or Newspeak, but a specific type of couch seems like fair game.

Cassiopeia · Feb 1, 2007

In my book I have described a car ride from one place to another...I don't think Henry Ford is going to be objecting to the fact that I am writing about a car.

It isn't plagerism to describe a common method. I think you will be just fine.

Casi

peevy · Feb 2, 2007

Casiopeia said:
It isn't plagerism to describe a common method. I think you will be just fine.

Casi

My point was that most of this stuff couldn't really be described as "common." But I probably agree with you.

virtue_summer · Feb 2, 2007

You got it from a non fiction book, right? It should be fair game. It was published for public consumption and published as nonfiction. I don't think utilizing it should hurt you at all.

Vincent · Feb 2, 2007

virtue_summer said:
You got it from a non fiction book, right? It should be fair game. It was published for public consumption and published as nonfiction. I don't think utilizing it should hurt you at all.

Unless your book sells as high as Da Vinci, and then someone, somewhere, might start a frivolous lawsuit just to try and cash in on your sucess? But by that stage, who cares, right?

JeanneTGC · Feb 6, 2007

peevy said:
What about the shoe idea, which hasn't yet been turned into a real product but is just an idea these authors have put forth?

My gut reaction would be that, as said earlier, if they wrote about it and the idea is out there for public consumption, you're okay.

If you are truly this worried about it that it might be stopping your writing, there is another alternative. Contact the authors/creators of the idea, describe the fiction book you're writing, and ask if they would have any problems with you using their idea/product and describe how it would be discussed. If they say it's okay, get their response notarized and you should be good to go. If they say no, do something else.

maestrowork · Feb 6, 2007

I'd put it in the acknowledgment. I think that's what Crichton did with Timeline. He put his reference to quantum theories, studies, etc. in his acknowledgment.

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