A confounding question...

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Lantern Jack

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Okay, this is a vital question that has nagged me for much of my serious writing life and yet I've never properly voiced it to anyone (a rare one for me. This is probably what bothers me most about myself as a fellow ink-slinger:

Okay, I have about 500 poems, short stories, novels, essays and screenplays saved on my desktop. I've posted another 700 on the Internet (all have been removed from public sight, on the advice of people wiser than myself, but they're still saved), and I've got many more personal stories that I like to tell people with the verve of an Irish yarn-spinner, but for all of these thousands upon thousands of words, here's the weird thing:

Once I've gotten them down, once I've written them and shown them to someone, or posted them on-line, or told someone (or, in my case, many, many people), I no longer want to touch that writing again. I've had agents tell me to work on novels and keep submitting my stuff after giving me full reads and even editing my stuff, I've been encouraged to submit my writing by writers for The Times and O.Henry Prize winners, I've won awards for short stories and journalism, and yet, once the stories are out of me and on the page, or once I've spooled it out for an audience, I never look at it again.

Instead of going back and making it better, or taking the excellent bits and sewing them together with the excellent bits of other pieces and making something truly excellent all around, I avoid them like a plague-ridden Mel Gibson. I mean, I truly don't understand why I do that and it really, really bothers me. The last thing I submitted was a comic book screenplay to a local photographer and which is now being produced. Before that, it's been two years since I've sent anything out, and I used to send stuff out monthly. Now, I just keep writing and writing and squirreling it away and it serves no purpose. Yet, once the stuff is out of me, I take no interest in it at all.

And I was just wondering if anyone could venture a guess as to why.

Thank you very much.
 

DeadlyAccurate

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Fear of success?
Fear of failure?

Or maybe you just like "the new."

Maybe you could compensate by trying to be a writer whose first draft is the final draft, assuming you can't convince yourself to go back. Otherwise, take one small work and try to make yourself edit it. When you finish that one, edit another, slightly longer work.
 

wm_bookworm

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I used to be the same way, to an extent. I think my inner writer felt that what I produced was my best quality work anyway, so why waste time fixing something that didn't need revision when I could be writing something new?

Also, the idea of editing a large piece of writing can be intimidating. When I get around to finishing a novel, I know I'll dread cracking down and making a second draft and editing the crap out of it. In the end it'll be beneficial, but it draws attention away from what could be new masterpieces.

I know I've had more ideas than I could put to paper.
 

Shadow_Ferret

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Fear of editing?

Maybe you just don't know where to begin? Maybe seeing your writing onscreen is intimidating or seems "final."

Maybe printing it out and then grabbing a red pen and savagely critiqueing it like you would for someone you didn't like would help. (Pretend it's mine, if that helps. ;))

I know I can see more errors when it's printed on paper than I can onscreen. Maybe you'd be a harsher critic on paper.
 

Summonere

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fini

I suspect that the reason you take no interest in your finished stories is pretty simple. They're finished.

Philip K. Dick and William Goldman both said much the same thing. Once they finished a story, it was over for them. The characters no longer seemed alive, nor even the stories themselves. All of the excitement of generating the stories frittered away after their completion. In fact, Goldman even said that trying to revisit stories in hope of improving them was dependent solely on his ability to get excited about the story idea all over again. If that didn't happen, and it sometimes did not, there was no chance he could ever successfully work on them again.

Now, if you're worried that your writing serves no purpose, yet you keep doing it anyway ... well,
maybe this for you is like smoking is to others, only healthier. Plus, with some 1,200 bits of finished writing to your credit, maybe you could even sell some, make a few bucks.

There are worse things than productivity, after all.
 

icerose

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I *despise* editing. I really do. I avoid it and put it off, but it is a necessary evil. I am getting better at forcing myself to do it, I hope a day will come when I no longer despise it.

There are lots of reasons for it.

1) It takes time away from creating new things and since I have so little time for writing as it stands, I'm very stingy with that time.

2) It's boring.

3) I have a hard time finding weakness on my own work and when I do find them I start to feel the piece is crappy and worthless, then it starts a whole other cycle that I don't like to get into.

4) I don't trust myself with my own work. I'm just as likely to give up on a piece, or do a complete and total rewrite as I am to fix it. I don't want to do a total rewrite when it isn't necessary, and I don't want to give up on a piece that has potential, so I put it off and put it off.

5) It reminds me how much better of a writer I am now than I was then and I see all this work to be done and of course wasted time (wasted being in my head since it is really well applied time).

And so I let these excuses and fears wiggle into my brain and that is what keeps me from going back and doing a thurough edit. There is one piece that I am doing almost a complete rewrite on, it's a script, Six Days, and so this is a first. I'm hoping that by accomplishing this one piece I will become bolder with my other pieces and give them the attention they deserve.
 

Lantern Jack

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First, I love all of these well-conceived responses---a thousand-thousand thank yous!---but, somehow, I don't think that's quite right. It's not that I feel these writings are in a fixed, finished state and can't be touched anymore, so much as...

...how can I put this...

...okay, this is it...

I feel like I've been putting down stories and metaphors and whatnot for years, stockpiling them, and now that it's time to finally write the best short stories and novels I can, for some reason, I have a fear of recycling all the best metaphors and stories into one gigantic, organic whole, to do something epic.

I look back at my writing as a notebook, all of those stories and ideas, one giant notebook...but, for some reason, I haven't cracked it yet.

My only possible explanation:

My old paranoid fear of plagiarism, that all these stories, whether written or oral, that I've shown people or posted on-line (for however long), that they've all been plundered and used by other people, all the best bits stripped out, so using them again would be pointless. I know it's an irrational fear, but, hey, I have OCD and this has always bothered me. It's not a question of ego, it's just this strange fear I have.

But I don't think that's it. And it's not that I have a problem criticizing my own writing. I do it all the time. None of my stories seem finished to me, but (and this is the key part here)

...there's plenty of good stuff in them...

I want to extract those good bits of stitch up my own ultimate homunculus.

But, for some reason, I hesitate, and I'm still not quite sure why.
 

Shadow_Ferret

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You can't plagiarize yourself, especially if those stories haven't been published.

I borrow freely from all my old unpublished stories. If there's a good metaphor or simile or description and it fits into my current WIP, then I take it.
 

icerose

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Okay suggestion, Jack.

Take one story out today. Read through it, copy down any good bits you find, save in a file called good bits.

Tomorrow take another story if you finished with the first and repeat. Start with one. Just do it. Don't think about it. Pick a time and a story, or just grab the first one you can and do it.

If you can't do it, if you have a wife who is interested in writing, have her do it for you, one story. Then work up your courage with each piece. I know it sounds kind of silly but just doing it with a small piece of work will help.
 

icerose

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You can't plagiarize yourself, especially if those stories haven't been published.

I borrow freely from all my old unpublished stories. If there's a good metaphor or simile or description and it fits into my current WIP, then I take it.

I think he was referring to other people plundering his work and using it in their own.
 

seun

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Even though it can be boring and occasionally demoralising, I think any writer has to edit and rewrite. What are the chances that the first draft of anything will be good enough to submit and/or have others read it?

If submission is not part of a writer's goal and they genuinely believe their first draft is the best they can produce, then editing won't do much good. However, I'd be surprised if any writer could produce their best from a first draft.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Why?

I don't have an answer for why, but I do have a possible solution. Stop talking about them, stop posting them, and stop showing them to anyone until after they're as perfect as it's possible to make them.
 

NeuroFizz

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Jack, you know you are among my favorite AW people, but an excuse is an excuse no matter how you dress it up. Apparently, you have many self-contained stories. If you want to raid the best little bits of them to make an epic story, you are approaching that epic from the wrong direction. The epic should come from an idea for a story, not from snippets of stories already told. So, this sounds like just another excuse. Just dig out some of your old stories, give them a hard look, and make a decision on each one as to whether they are worth molding into something worth submitting or not.

As for not wanting to submit, the following statement is half joke, half challenge: You've described your writing brilliance here, but all you give us is your word on it. Give us something more... (Us being the reading public)
 
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Shadow_Ferret

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I think he was referring to other people plundering his work and using it in their own.

Well, it is his work. If someone else plundered it, THEY are plagiarizing.

If you reuse your own line and someone else has already STOLEN it, then they are the plagiarists, not you.

As long as you have a copy of the original story something came from, as long as it's still on the internet or on your computer, that (I believe) is proof that it is YOUR work.

Worrying about someone else having ripped off your own words and using that as an excuse not to write is just that: an excuse not to write and a silly one at that.

Get writing, LJ.
 

icerose

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Even though it can be boring and occasionally demoralising, I think any writer has to edit and rewrite. What are the chances that the first draft of anything will be good enough to submit and/or have others read it?

If submission is not part of a writer's goal and they genuinely believe their first draft is the best they can produce, then editing won't do much good. However, I'd be surprised if any writer could produce their best from a first draft.

I completely agree Seun, I was merely listing my excuses for delaying the editing process.

It doesn't cut it, no excuse ever does and excuses always hurt the person using them in the long run.
 

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Jack, you know you are among my favorite AW people, but an excuse is an excuse no matter how you dress it up. Apparently, you have many self-contained stories. If you want to raid the best little bits of them to make an epic story, you are approaching that epic from the wrong direction. The epic should come from an idea for a story, not from snippets of stories already told. So, this just sounds like just another excuse. Just dig out some of your old stories, give them a hard look, and make a decision on each one as to whether they are worth molding into something worth submitting or not.

As for not wanting to submit, the following statement is half joke, half challenge: You've described your writing brilliance here, but all you give us is your word on it. Give us something more... (Us being the reading public)
Ditto what Rich said.
 

Lantern Jack

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Yeah, I guess this whole thing came out because I promised Rachel a special present for Valentine's Day:

A short story, dedicated to her, which I would then submit to 20 literary magazines (and, for the hell of it, The New Yorker, as they accept only on-line submissions, so it's just point, click...and done!)

I then promised her that, after I sent out the short story, I would finally write my novel, no excuses.

And it's not that the short story isn't going well...

I know what my story is about, the full plot line, pretty much. I've written down 4,000 words worth of scenes and lines and I still have more in my head. It's just, I haven't been able to make it come alive for me in some vital way, yet.

Then I thought about all these personal experiences I'd etched out already, how I could invest myself in a most personal way into this story, and into the novel after, but when I fumbled around in my old grab bag, I drew out an empty fist.

The old fears, the ones I just sicked up, were keeping me at bay.

I have a lot of baggage as a writer and a person, but I guess that's no excuse. I mean, the most bereft among us, they often give us the most finished works, right?

But an excuse is an excuse is an excuse. Excuses, excuses, we use them every day... as the old children's lyric goes.

So. [stands up, brushes off bum, buries fist in hips]

I guess I should take a page out of my hero, Naruto's, book:

If you are a man, live it the way you won't regret. Protect whatever is important to you with these two arms, no matter how tough or sad it is, even if it costs you your life!

Yes, I know, I know! I'm a bit of an otaku, and the only good otaku is an otaku who never quotes anime around the unitiated (i.e. the utterly indifferent), but the words stand (and, by the by, Naruto is just about the best goddam thing I've committed to TV, Japanese or anything otherly else).

So, I guess the only way to kick my fears around the county square is to lace up my iron cleats and get punting, right?

After all, I did promise Rachel, right? Twice, right?

And A man always honors his word, no matter what!

Okay, okay! I'll stop now. All the same, I appreciate all your sage advice.

Neurofizzle, Shadow Kangaroo Rat and the like:tongue :Hug2:

Thanks much! Now, let's get to it!

Oh, and P.S. for William Haskins: I'm sorry the poem I promised you has become a short story, but, well, it would make Rachel happier and, well, she's prettier than you:D
 
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SpookyWriter

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I have no doubt we'll be hearing great things about you from someone else, soon I hope.
 

swvaughn

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OT: Woot for Naruto!

I heart Gaara. Also, Shikamaru. (In fact, according to one of those goofy profile tests online, I AM Shikamaru... go figure. Didn't know I was lazy. :D)

Uh... LanternJack, never fear! Go forth and submit! And you can do it. Editing is really, really hard, so it's not surprising that it's intimidating. It intimidates the hell out of me.
 

Lantern Jack

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OT: Woot for Naruto!

I heart Gaara. Also, Shikamaru. (In fact, according to one of those goofy profile tests online, I AM Shikamaru... go figure. Didn't know I was lazy. :D)

Uh... LanternJack, never fear! Go forth and submit! And you can do it. Editing is really, really hard, so it's not surprising that it's intimidating. It intimidates the hell out of me.

I like nice Gaara much better than malevolent Gaara. And Shikamaru is a decent sort, if only he wasn't such a slacker doof all the time, but at least he's semi-kind to fat ass, I mean big-boned Chouji:tongue

And I don't know if everyone got what I was getting at, or if they missed the bits where I said this, but I'm not concerned with editing stories that weren't going anywhere in the first place, but in taking everything that's good about my past writing and putting it together with all the good stuff I have planned, which is what I mean to do now.

Believe it:tongue
 

NeuroFizz

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I have read your musings here, LJ. You are talented. It's time to show the world. I'll be at the head of the line to purchase your work when it comes out, even though I realize my money is also no match for Rachel in your priority basket.
 

Lantern Jack

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I have read your musings here, LJ. You are talented. It's time to show the world. I'll be at the head of the line to purchase your work when it comes out, even though I realize my money is also no match for Rachel in your priority basket.

Of course, a better image is me and Rachel rolling around on a bedful of your money, laughing like ticklish loons:tongue
 

Hillgate

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State of mind

I know exactly where you're coming from of the 'do it, done it, on to the next' school and sometimes I wish it could be just like that.

I find the revision/editing/comments/re-write thing very trying but I do it out of intense paranoia. If what I produce won't stand up to the harshest critic then I might as well not bother producing it in the first place.

I imagine a successful screenwriter friend of mine picking apart every word - which is what I do to her too - constructively, but critically.

What I'm saying, I think, is that fear is my motive for entering re-write/edit mode.

Maybe I need to lighten up. By the way, I'm on my fifth glass of red wine so excuse any typos....
 
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