Question regarding Narrative...

Stew21 · Jan 30, 2007

I'm afraid my narrator is telling too much, that some things should be left open.
What I did this morning:
One of my characters goes a bit crazy. he decides he needs to make a change. The physical act of doing so is in housecleaning. Not your typical housecleaning either, he's throwing his stuff on the lawn - clearing space, whatever he can get his hands on. Now do I let the reader come to the conclusion that this is the physical act of a very mental process, that his littered house resembles his mental state and he is dumping the baggage; that he is physically seeing now, his littered lawn for the first time and that it represents what his insides feel like, or do I make the connection for the reader and explain the mirror image of this physical manifestation of his mental state?

I think I want to tell the reader too much!

(I could go on with more in a similar line and explain where I have seen things open for interpretation that most people failed to get as well, but I won't so I don't confuse things.)

Thanks,
Trish

Bmwhtly · Jan 30, 2007

I'm not a novel writer, but I wouldn't spell it out.
Don't leave it entirely open to interpretation.
If I was a better writer, I'd drop in a metaphor or a hint of some kind to indicate what this represents.
An example of this is drifting around my head, just out of reach.

But I'm not a novel writer.
[Novel Writer enters]

Siddow · Jan 30, 2007

heh...don't really have advice for you, just wanted to say I have a very similar scene in one of my novels, only the guy then sets it all on fire.

Okay, maybe I have a little advice:

Do you have any internal dialog going on during the scene? Or is it all action? I think just a couple of lines about how he's thinking during the scene will alert the reader without knocking them over the head with the point. And if you've already established (pre-scene) that this guy has mental clutter, the reader will get it anyway.

greglondon · Jan 30, 2007

<i>do I make the connection for the reader and explain the mirror image of this physical manifestation of his mental state?

The narrative of your scene should be limited to whatever the POV character is seeing, doing, and thinking. If the POV character would see the stuff on the lawn and think "Wow, that looks exactly like how I feel in my head", then go for it. If the POV character isn't one for introspective fits, then don't mention it.

davids · Jan 30, 2007

Hey Trish this is almost an impossible question to answer which I would like to-especially for you-so take this scene which you have written and post it and get some suggestions-Me? I would have to read what is in your head-what you have put down on the paper-then I just might be able to help and I am sure others would as well-then you could see-you know-with the old eye ballies and the heart and figure out what the hell you want to/need to do to make it tight and right-Dave

Stew21 · Jan 30, 2007

now I find myself wondering how many other scenes my narrative is not just the POV character's thoughts, language and actions. *shoot*

Stew21 · Jan 30, 2007

thanks Davids. I may have to do that, though I'm sort of afraid to. If I let my internal editor do housecleaning on this scene like my character did his home, I'm screwed for getting through first draft. I'll want to rewrite the whole damn thing.

Can I say "oh shit" now?

janetbellinger · Jan 30, 2007

I think I would lead the reader to make the connection as some people are more capable of doing so than others and you can't assume that a given reader will be one of the ones who does so easily. I would show the character's frustration with the way things are, his need to make a change, any change, showing this through his feelings then show him throwing stuff out and then hope the reader will get the symbolism.

Stew21 · Jan 30, 2007

Ok, now is about the time someone tells me not to go back and read it until I finish draft one.
This is one of those moments where you wonder if you're any good at this writing stuff.

trish, panicking a bit.

skelly · Jan 30, 2007

For what it's worth, I would rather let the reader figure it out. That means that in similar situations, I have to figure out how to present the scene such that the reader draws the conclusion that I need him or her to draw. And even if you have been a little strong in the narration dept., it's nothing you can't fix later. Onwards, ma'am!

Cath · Jan 30, 2007

It's personal preference for me, but I loathe books that spell out the connections between action and internal feeling. For me, the actions should demonstrate that feeling on their own, without additional guidance.

I believe strongly that most readers are smart and are able to make the links on their own.

That said, Trish - if it's a first draft, just write it and revisit what works when you edit it, you might find you have more distance from the scene and can see more clearly how it fits into the whole of the novel.

Hope that helps.

ChaosTitan · Jan 30, 2007

Stew21 said:
If I let my internal editor do housecleaning on this scene like my character did his home, I'm screwed for getting through first draft. I'll want to rewrite the whole damn thing.

Put your internal editor to bed until you finish the first draft. Then let her out again when it's time to revise. You already know what she'll be looking for in what you've written; keep that in mind as you go forward with new scenes.

Stew21 · Jan 30, 2007

chaostitan said:
Put your internal editor to bed until you finish the first draft. Then let her out again when it's time to revise. You already know what she'll be looking for in what you've written; keep that in mind as you go forward with new scenes.

you say that like I can just ask my internal editor to take a nap - sleep tight - I can't even get my kids to do that...let alone the prison guard I.E.
She's going to have to be drugged and tied up in the basement.

ChaosTitan · Jan 30, 2007

You can always try hitting her on the head with a hammer, tying her up in a sack, stuffing her into a storage trunk, and burying that under a new concrete foundation.....

MidnightMuse · Jan 30, 2007

The more you learn, the harder it is to turn off that internal editor and just get the first draft completed. They get filled up with all manner of rules and proper etiquette of writing and story telling, then they swell up with panic if we use the wrong verb or fill in a sentence with a touch of flowery language just to bridge a gap between some action - even when we promise we'll edit that out in the second.

It's hard, but it can be done (or so I'm told!)

NeuroFizz · Jan 30, 2007

Try something like this. If this isn’t exactly what you are thinking, that’s okay. Just use it as an example of how a scene could be structured. I just banged this out, so consider this a first-draft quality example…

******

Ricky ripped the TV tray from its wedged-in space between the couch and the wall, walked to the door, and let it fly out onto the lawn. His aim was off. Instead of crashing into the pile of his other accumulations, it landed on the stained throw pillows Christie had given him on their one-month anniversary.

He kicked at the curled edge of the carpeting. That one lasted a whole two months. I needed a feminine touch in here like I needed another hole in my a$$.

He turned a circle in the half-empty front room. Who’s next?

He grabbed a box, held it up to the top shelf of the cinder block-and-pressboard bookshelf, and swept the stolen shot glasses and ashtrays into the container. Break, motherf***ers.

A shifting shadow caught his eye, from where the life-sized poster of Elvis had stood in mid gyration. Great. God damn belt’s broken on the vacuum and the dust bunnies are coming to life.

He kicked one of the lower cinderblocks and the shelves crashed to the floor, along with the rest of his glass memories.

*****

If you mix in action and internal dialogue, you can keep it from becoming too tell-y. Also, symbolism is a key. Reference to a specific failed relationship can be mixed together with some more abstract metaphors of his wasted life, like the stolen shot glasses and ashtrays (theft of souvenirs from bars and motels, suggesting his life was somewhat seedy, and that he was not above theft). Not wanting a woman’s touch and an unfixed vacuum suggest a reluctance to fully clean up, even after he rids his life of most of its baggage. This continues the tension. Also, if you refer to his stuff as accumulations instead of belongings, it suggests a worthlessness. Finally, reference to glass memories gives a little double entendre about the fragility of his past exploits, and of his souvenirs. Hope this helps.

Stew21 · Jan 30, 2007

i had sort of the same thought, Neuro. Thanks for the great example! Loved it! Each item is connected to a piece of mental clutter! YES!

thanks so much for the example. it really helped!

Serenity · Jan 30, 2007

chaostitan said:
You can always try hitting her on the head with a hammer, tying her up in a sack, stuffing her into a storage trunk, and burying that under a new concrete foundation.....

Okay, I'm afraid to have Chaos as a roommate now...

but, I love Neuro's idea. If it's just that scene that is jumping out at you, maybe rewrite that one, but don't go back and re-do everything. Fix this, feel better about it. I wouldn't say leave it alone, because if it bothered you enough to ask about it here, it's going to bother you later and will probably make writing the rest of the book that much harder. Finish the story, keep this thread bookmarked somewhere, and come back to it later when you're editing.

kristie911 · Jan 30, 2007

Neuro's example is great. It shows the connection between the actions and the mental aspect without spelling out everything. I hate when the author spells out everything...I'm fairly intelligent, so if the writer just clues me in, I can usually follow along.

Good luck Trish!

Stew21 · Jan 31, 2007

Well since it was the last scene I had written, I decided to go back to it while it was bothering me. The way I prevented myself from going back through the rest of the story was that I did it away from the computer on regular old notebook paper. I figured, I wouldn't have the option of looking any further into it. and I think I wrote a pretty darned good scene.
thanks Neuro for the example of what I couldn't quite put my finger on. I was thinking something similar but just couldn't get there.
Thanks for all the suggestions. I do feel much better and once I replace what I've hand written into the word doc I will feel even better.

then I can move forward.

Thanks all,
trish

Stew21 · Feb 12, 2007

I just wanted to say thanks again. This scene came out wonderfully and it was actually very fun to have someone come so unhinged. What a delight to write.
thanks for the great suggestions. I'm moving forward now with the same momentum as my character...who swung his baseball bat through his home.

Question regarding Narrative...

Stew21

Bmwhtly

Yes, I'm back.

Siddow

I'm super! Thanks for asking

greglondon

Planet Wookie techno geek

davids

Stew21

Stew21

janetbellinger

Stew21

skelly

Kickin it old school, posers beware

Cath

The mean one

ChaosTitan

Around

Stew21

ChaosTitan

Around

MidnightMuse

Midnight Reading

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it

Stew21

Serenity

NCIS...

kristie911

Happy to be here

Stew21

Stew21