A formula exists for writing good novels

Riiiiiiiiiight.

You funny.

I know, but I'm not telling.

Actually, I never was very good at math.

Alcohol + Bravado - Common sense = Bestseller

Oh, I'm pretty sure there are alot more three letters involved.

Cool! It's just like the underwear gnomes on South Park . . .

See, the problem is, there isn't any one way to be a best seller. Just like there isn't any one way to break into the publishing industry or hollywood (especially the latter!).

Best sellers of all kinds become that way. Some are for exceedingly great writing that have a voice that speaks to the audience. Some may not have the writing perfect but the story captures the imagination of the readers. There isn't any one subject that does it either.

If there was a formula, you can bet publishers would have it and use it regularly and predict with great acuracy which will sell big and which will flop.

Point is, they can't.

JK Rowlings advance was 2000. An advance is roughly the amount the publisher expects the book to make.

Where as some of the "big ticket" books that got million dollar advances didn't even make the advance because they flopped.

If such a formula exists publishers wouldn't be going through the guestimates and they have a heck of a lot more experience with delivering to the readers best sellers than we could ever hope to have. If they can't figure it out, no one can.

Look at M. Night Shalaman. He had a "formula" for a perfect thriller. Only two of which were block busters, The Village was just sad, and he flunked the one that deviated from it. Lady in the Water or something like that.

Sure there are some formula writers who continue to succeed book after book, but that doesn't mean their formula would apply to anyone else.

Readers are fickle and they will surprise you on what books they like and which ones they don't.

And if there was a formula, every single Dan Brown Book look alike would be a mega seller, every JK Rowling look alike would be a mega seller, but they aren't. People want fresh and new and exciting while sticking to something that they know. Some books break out of that norm, then become a new norm. What makes one book stick out more than another? The readers. It all comes down to the readers. What might be a best seller this year might have gone unnoticed in ten years. You never know.

Funny thing: the thread title is "good novels." But the equation in the original post is for a Bestseller. Two things that do not necessarily go hand in hand.

dyljos said:

A + B - C = Bestseller...

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if
A = being an excellent/dedicated writer with a string of previous bestsellers
B = strong reader following
C = number of flops in back catalogue

Chances are pretty good that you'll have a best seller.

Oh - you mean a formual for writing the novel? Nah - don't think so.

but A + B has to be greater than C otherwise when you subtract it, you would end up with a negative...Less than Zero - which as we all know was a bad 80's movie, not a great novel.

I believe the answer is 42.

Stew21 said:

but A + B has to be greater than C otherwise when you subtract it, you would end up with a negative...Less than Zero - which as we all know was a bad 80's movie, not a great novel.

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Actually, Less Than Zero WAS a great novel. And a bad film.

chaostitan said:

Funny thing: the thread title is "good novels." But the equation in the original post is for a Bestseller. Two things that do not necessarily go hand in hand.

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Case and point: many of Dan Brown's books

Stew21 said:

but A + B has to be greater than C otherwise when you subtract it, you would end up with a negative...Less than Zero - which as we all know was a bad 80's movie, not a great novel.

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Let's not forget to factor in such important variables as:

X = how much glitter you include in your query
Y = number of times unicorns are drawn on your letterhead
Z = Orlando Bloom

willietheshakes said:

Actually, Less Than Zero WAS a great novel. And a bad film.

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Was it really? LOL! I was trying to make a bad joke, turns out it was really bad!

Michael Dracon said:

Case and point: many of Dan Brown's books

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I find it ironic that many best selling authors use a formula for all their work. If you take books by J.K. Rowling, and read them all for instance, you will see the same plot progression, and same techniques used throughout. Or for instance you take a Grisham novel; Those pretty much are the exact same. Brown also formulates, and writes the same basic story over and over again. Apparently there is a formula, but it just varies between authors.

~JBI

If there is an actual formula, why aren't more people using it?

If someone gave me the formula, you can be damned sure I'd be cranking out those kinds of novels as fast as my little fingers could punch them out.

I think its just sour grapes to call something formulaic. It's just envy on the part of those who haven't been able to find this "formula."

There's a difference between using a formula and just doing what you do. Now, if a bunch of wannabes take what she does and copy it, then it becomes a formula. But even then, it wouldn't be one from JK's perspective.

Actually, I think the A+B-C formula would work if:

A = A cool idea
B = hundreds of hours of BIC
C = the boring parts

There are three rules for writing the novel. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.
~ W. Somerset Maugham

PattiTheWicked said:

Let's not forget to factor in such important variables as:

X = how much glitter you include in your query
Y = number of times unicorns are drawn on your letterhead
Z = Orlando Bloom

Click to expand...

12 ounces
Seven
Yes!

Actually, there a bunches and bunches of people who have created/discovered/published formulae for novels, successful and best selling and various genres.

Personally, I think they're all a bit daft. But if you Google a bit, you'll find interesting theories about fiction and formulae and how novels work. Take a look at the Hero's Journey, by Campbell, for instance.

JBI said:

Or for instance you take a Grisham novel; Those pretty much are the exact same.

~JBI

Click to expand...

How many of his books have you actually read??

I've read The Firm, A Time To Kill, The Pelican Brief, The Client, The Testament, The Rainmaker, The Chamber, Runaway Jury, The Partner, The Brethren, A Painted House, and The Summons.

Not a single one of them was like the other. Other than most of them had lawyers in them. They had unique story lines, unique characters, unique situations, and unique outcomes. How is that formulatic?

Please, by all means, identify what makes his books formulatic.

Good point, Ice. I think this has to do with the old saying "you're only as good as your last flop".

I know everyone loves to slag Dan Brown, but I've read all his books and while Angels&Demons and DaVinci Code have obvious similarities (including the main character), I don't see how they line up with Digital Fortress or Deception Point (the latter being his best book, for me).

And while I personally have problems with Grisham's plotting on the books of his I've read, I wouldn't generalize since I haven't read that many of them. (Or, at least, I shouldn't generalize, but I probably do in most conversations about him...not sure why)

Perhaps it's because I'm terrible at identifying formulas which is why I could never write with one, but please, Scribbler, tell me what problems you have with his plotting, I will take it according to your admitted experience, even generalize if you have to since I will take it as such. I don't see it, so I'm asking you to explain.

I just find them boring and straightforward...no surprises or inventiveness, if you know what I mean. I like to have some twists and turns that I can't see coming. So, I guess that would make him not a bad plotter but a bit of a lazy hack in my mind. I can't give you any specific examples, I'm afraid. It's just been too long since I even thought about his plots, but I think you get the idea.

(BTW, he makes up for a lot of this with his knowledge of law and lawyers...just not enough for me.)

Hey, you asked.

B + C + W + E + e - P = N

In the above formula:
B = Butt
C = Chair
W= Writing utensil
E= Effort
e= Editing
P= Pretentiousness
N= Novel