Mage? Magus? Magi? Mages?

thethinker42 · Jan 26, 2007

I've been getting mixed messages about this, so I thought I'd throw it out here:

Does it really matter what form of the word "mage" someone uses? I've been emphatically told the plural form is "magi", then equally admantly informed that the correct form is "mages". I've heard that the singular form is "mage" or "magus", and that a female mage/magi can or cannot be referred to as a "magess".

Is there really a hard and fast rule with this, or can I assume that the reader will understand and accept my choice of words?

Just curious.

I've gotten rather heated responses either way, and I've grown rather weary of having to go around in circles with my beta readers about it LOL (J/K about the last part...but I did put a chapter on a fantasy writers board once, and we spent God only knows HOW many posts picking apart my use of this or that reference to a mage instead of another...NOTHING constructive about my chapter beyond that! LOL)

MattW · Jan 26, 2007

Call them whatever you want - there's no rules for naming things in fiction, only connotation and reader bias.

finch · Jan 26, 2007

When in doubt, wikipedia's a good launch pad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mage

Melanie Nilles · Jan 26, 2007

Use what you want. If the story is good, what difference should it make to the reader whether you use magi or mages? I think it's other writers who are going to pick it apart like that more than the readers. Most fantasy authors, at least what I've read, use whatever suits them. I didn't care, as long as it made sense for the story.

Personally, I use mage/magi (sing/plural) in my fantasy series.

Melanie

thethinker42 · Jan 26, 2007

Thanks, guys.

I was just curious. I use mage/magi (and, oh the horrors, magess). I just never forgot that group going nutso over "OMG WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY MAGE/MAGI/MAGESS I CAN'T POSSIBLY FIGURE IT OUT???" ARGH. LOL So I wondered what this group would think.

I figure most people can put two and two together and figure out what I'm talking about.

AnnieColleen · Jan 26, 2007

Magnets? Magenta? Mag-lite? (sorry, your thread title made me laugh!)

In other words, ditto everyone else -- use what works for the story world. Some arguments just take on a life of their own & aren't worth worrying about.

Sage · Jan 26, 2007

As long as you're consistent, the reader will figure it out (in theory at least).

Shadow_Ferret · Jan 26, 2007

Interesting. I never heard of magess, ever. So I looked it up. It isn't in my dictionary, but neither is mage. Only magi and magus. Learn something new everyday.

sunandshadow · Jan 26, 2007

I personally use mage, mages, for both males and females. I think if you used magus/magi that would give you a more historical feel because of the latin declension, and might be reasonable to use that only for men because it's a masculine word, but I personally prefer societies where men and women are treated equally, including having the same title for male and female magic-users.

thethinker42 · Jan 27, 2007

sunandshadow said:
I personally prefer societies where men and women are treated equally, including having the same title for male and female magic-users.

Interesting. I guess I've never really viewed it as being unequal to use, say, sorcerer/sorceress, mage/magess, etc. Oddly enough, my group of sorcerers is probably the LEAST patriarchal of the societies in my book. LOL No different than king/queen, prince/princess, mr/mrs, etc...an identifier of gender, but not in any kind of negative or judgemental sense.

I guess it was just easier when I was referring to numerous people in a conversation to say "Sorceress so-and-so" to let the reader know she's female.

Diana Hignutt · Jan 27, 2007

A Magus is an adept who has reached the highest level of human attainment. The others are names often bestowed upon any adept by the uninitiated.

Still, it's your book, do what you like. As long as you're consistent you'll be okay. Best of luck!

MattW · Jan 27, 2007

Diana Hignutt said:
A Magus is an adept who has reached the highest level of human attainment. The others are names often bestowed upon any adept by the uninitiated.

If he were writing about real world magicK, I would defer to your expertise.

But in a work of fiction, there need be no solid distinction between wizard, mage, sorceror, or haberdasher unless the writer wants one.

It may be nails on a chalkboard to you, but there's a limited number of words that a general fantasy reader will know for a practicioner of magical arts.

Still, it's your book, do what you like. As long as you're consistent you'll be okay. Best of luck!

That's good advice right there.

Judg · Jan 27, 2007

If you want to be linguistically consistent, you would go with either the English forms mage/mages or the Latin, magus/magi. It does seem a little strange to use the English singular and the Latin plural. But it's your world, you call the shots. If you opt for all Latin forms, ask someone who's studied it what the appropriate feminine form would be. If you stick to English, magess seems as good a solution as any.

victoria.goddard · Jan 27, 2007

The feminine form of magus (pl. magi), would probably be maga (pl. magae), but I have to say that as a reader that would probably through me off-stride for a while. Probably not very long, particularly if it were explained properly in the first instance, but still . . . And I know Latin.

However, I don't think it's a real word. Let me look it up in my oh-so-handy Latin dictionary . . . Magus comes from the Greek magos, which in turn comes from the Persian, meaning magician or learned man (hence the Three Magi). Maga, according to Lewis and Short, is simply the feminine form of the adjective. And in Latin, it's quite acceptable to use the adjective substantively--to use 'maga', for instance, which literally means "something (feminine) magic or magical", to mean "a magical woman" or a female equivalent of a magus.

Just in case you wanted all the Latin.

sunandshadow · Jan 27, 2007

thethinker42 said:
Interesting. I guess I've never really viewed it as being unequal to use, say, sorcerer/sorceress, mage/magess, etc. Oddly enough, my group of sorcerers is probably the LEAST patriarchal of the societies in my book. LOL No different than king/queen, prince/princess, mr/mrs, etc...an identifier of gender, but not in any kind of negative or judgemental sense.

I guess it was just easier when I was referring to numerous people in a conversation to say "Sorceress so-and-so" to let the reader know she's female.

Except king/queen, prince/princess really are different. The prince inherits the country, the princess gets married off and leaves. The king leads the army, the queen leads the fashions of the court. Maybe that's not the way it was in your book, but that's what we expect because that's the way things were historically and most fantasy is based on history to some degree.

thethinker42 · Jan 27, 2007

sunandshadow said:
Except king/queen, prince/princess really are different. The prince inherits the country, the princess gets married off and leaves. The king leads the army, the queen leads the fashions of the court. Maybe that's not the way it was in your book, but that's what we expect because that's the way things were historically and most fantasy is based on history to some degree.

Ok, so it was a bad example. LOL

I guess I just don't view having a slightly different word based on gender to be a negative thing. Referring to a female as a sorcerer rather than sorceress just doesn't jive well with me, not sure why. In my book sorcerers/sorceresses and mages/magesses are equal within their society. They refer to each other as "Brother" and "Sister" frequently too, almost in the same sense we'd refer to someone as "Mr" or "Mrs".

I think my next book will be in a world where everyone is a hermaphrodite, and all references to gender are nonexistent. LOL THAT will make things simpler...

frimble3 · Jan 27, 2007

I'd say use whatever you prefer or works for your story with the caveat that 'magi' does tend to make me think of 'Three Wise Men' when I first see it, therefore I have a slight preference for 'mages'.

rihannsu · Jan 29, 2007

thethinker42 said:
Ok, so it was a bad example. LOL

I think my next book will be in a world where everyone is a hermaphrodite, and all references to gender are nonexistent. LOL THAT will make things simpler...

"Dr. Le Guin. Paging Dr. Ursula Le Guin!"

AnneMarble · Jan 30, 2007

I have been using mage and mages in my story. I guess because I imprinted on the term "mage" while reading the Dragonlance Chronicles.

For some reason, I never ended up using magus, magi, etc. But I figure it's my world, so maybe they form the plurals as I... I mean they, heh heh

... see fit.

What really struck me about "mage" is how few have heard the term. The people in a small writing class I attended read my first chapter, and they didn't understand the word. One thought it was an ethnic group who just happened to cast spells (as I had introduced some ethnic groups in the story). Even some SF/fantasy writers don't recognize the word.

On the other end of the spectrum, I've read posts where SF/fantasy readers say they hate any fantasy story uses the word "mage" -- apparently because it reminds them of Dragonlance and "generic fantasy" in general.
:e2thud:

Gee, why not judge the story on its merits? :tongue

It's not as if the word "mage" (and related terms) were invented for Dragonlance. Sheesh. I just happen to think it sounds neater than "wizard."

JimmyB27 · Jan 31, 2007

AnneMarble said:
On the other end of the spectrum, I've read posts where SF/fantasy readers say they hate any fantasy story uses the word "mage" -- apparently because it reminds them of Dragonlance and "generic fantasy" in general.

Do they also hate the horribly cliched use of the term 'archer' for anyone who uses a bow, or 'thief' for anyone who steals stuff?

AnneMarble · Jan 31, 2007

JimmyB27 said:
Do they also hate the horribly cliched use of the term 'archer' for anyone who uses a bow, or 'thief' for anyone who steals stuff?

Probably.

Some readers become allergic to certain perfectly acceptable words. Recently, I read a recent blog entry (one of those "rules for fantasy writers" things) by a fantasy writer. One of her signs of a bad fantasy novel was when the writer used the word "blade" in the title instead of "sword" or something like that.

Actually, she did have some good ideas. But her list got hung up in trivialities such as that one. Like no heroines with red hair because red hair was rare, so there shouldn't be so many heroines with red hair. Yeah. Whatever.
:Shrug:

I wish I could remember the blasted URL, though. Does anyone know the article I'm talking about?

kct webber · Feb 4, 2007

I'm one of those people who find the word mage, or any variation thereof, rather generic. But then, I also find wizard and sorcerer generic. This is not because these words aren't perfectly acceptable and useful; it's because I've heard them so often.

That being said, I don't dislike them, exactly. I certainly wouldn't throw a book across the room because of them, in any variation. (Even Magess.) I made up the names for my magic users--and, actually, I never use the word magic or, again, any variation thereof. But that's just me. Use whatever you want. I did. So long as it's consistent and your reader understands what you mean, I'm not sure that it matters. And if a reader does throw the book across the room because of it... well, you can't please everyone. Some people are just natural... *expletive deleted*

AnneMarble · Feb 4, 2007

kct webber said:
...That being said, I don't dislike them, exactly. I certainly wouldn't throw a book across the room because of them, in any variation. (Even Magess.)

How about Mageees? Or even Magessss?

(We wants those Magessss to give us the ring back, yessss.)

kct webber said:
...And if a reader does throw the book across the room because of it... well, you can't please everyone. Some people are just natural... *expletive deleted*

Yeah, there's always the *expletive deleted* factor.

MadScientistMatt · Feb 4, 2007

I don't use either one in my stories, but I wouldn't mix Latin and English versions. "Magus" and its plural "magi" seems reminiscent of Bible characters, like Simon Magus or the Three Magi, and is something I might try using for a fantasy work set in a land similar to Biblical times. And if I were going for that effect, I would probably use maga/magae for a woman in that profession, assuming it was a role open to women (after all, those were rather sexist times for much of the ancient world!).

"Mage" seems like it came from Dungeons and Dragons (at least, I haven't heard any earlier source using it), and it seems to me like its rightful plural ought to be "mages." And that term seems like it could be applied to either gender. Sometimes TSR used "magi" as its plural in D&D source material, but that one had me really wince. It made me think Gary Gigax had tried to construct a singular from a Latin plural with little knowledge of Latin, but I may be wrong on that etimology.

Selcaby · Feb 7, 2007

I use "mage" and "mages", and in my book they're non-gender-specific. I originally used "wizard" but decided that while it worked for the male characters, I couldn't think of an equivalent that felt right for the female ones. (Yes, I know there are several. None of them felt right.)

My book has several different kinds of magic. I decided that "_______ mage" (fill in the type of magic) is a technical term for a user of one type, while "wizard" is an acceptable looser descriptive term for any character it seems to suit. Since "mage" is a relatively uncommon word, I feel I can play around with it more. But I'd use "wizard" in a query letter because the image it conjures up for most people would be quite appropriate in context.

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