Straight Slog, or Shoot Out of Sequence...?

JasonChirevas · Jan 23, 2007

Hey, my first question...

I've started my first proper novel, it's been all short stories and a 55,000 word serial to this point. I wondered how many write their novels straight through, Chapter 1 to the end, versus how many skip through the chronolgy of their story, writing the scences strongest in their minds, creating a sort of skeleton on which to hang the rest of the book?

Seems to me it'd be a more natural emotional build writing straight through, but it might be better in terms of focus and story structure to create that skeleton, fill in the gaps, and then address sustained emotional build in revision, since it's all likely to change to some degree anyway.

Thoughts...?

-Jason

IrishScribbler · Jan 23, 2007

For my WIP, I've created the skeleton of a novel. Now I'm rereading, revising, and filling in the gaps. In my draft, the basic story is there, I just have to flesh it out now.

So far it's working quite nicely, too.

Simon Woodhouse · Jan 23, 2007

I can't imagine writing a novel in bits and pieces. I'd lose track of where I was, and I'm sure the character development would suffer.

jess b · Jan 23, 2007

I write straight through, because I rarely have the later scenes (or plot, for that matter) fully fleshed out right from the beginning. But if a bit of dialogue or a detail or an incident that would fit in a later scene occurs to me, I'll jot it down, very roughly, to use when I get there. I find that this helps me keep track of my ideas without committing me to, for example, a particular character's voice before I've had the chance to actually develop that character.

thepainpasses · Jan 23, 2007

I personally made an outline, the facts I needed to know (names, powers, why the hell I'm even writing the thing), what was going on in the opening, how it'd end, and a bit of what I expected would fall in the middle, and then started writing in a linear fashion, beginning to end.

My ending is the often the whole reason why I'm writing...I am slightly in love with it. I think it's got a really strong climax, and I'm excited. That's why I'm writing it straightforward. Because then I don't find myself writing all the exciting scenes at the get go and then losing focus when it comes to filling in all the scenes I don't like as much. This way I write towards many little goals, little rewards of favorite scenes that keep me plugging away at my writing. I know where I'm going, and I use that to keep me inspired on the road to get there.

farfromfearless · Jan 23, 2007

To be honest, I found that writing a novel chapter per chapter was really counter-productive for me. I break my work into parts - usually four parts - and just keep on writing until the story is done. That's my first draft right there. When I do the next draft I tear my work apart and break them into chapters seeing as my story has it's essential parts already. It's easier for me to work that way, a few more files to muck around with but it works

PeeDee · Jan 23, 2007

I start at the beginning and I write to the end. I'm capable of jumping around, but I don't enjoy it. When I write serial stories, though, then I can be halfway through episode 2....and then finish episode 4, for whatever reason.

But for novel work, it's beginning to middle to end for me.

vrabinec · Jan 23, 2007

Interesting thread. I wrote through the first half of the book, stopping to jot down notes as long as five or ten paragraphs when I thought of a scene I really liked so I wouln't lose any of the flavor I had when it hit me. Then I went back and continued on. Right now, I'm skipping some of the scenes in the second half of the novel because they contain characters I'm considering "abandoning" because they don't add significantly to the plot, though they do add to the theme.

If I wasn't at 97,000 with a quarter of the book to go, I would have just lowered my head and plowed through to the end. I like saving the exciting scenes at the end for future typing as a prize for getting through the set up. I don't want to eat my desert before the vegetables. I HAVE to eat my vegetables or the end unravels and loses potency. In short, I use a hybrid.

Michelle Hoppe · Jan 23, 2007

For me it depends on the story. I've done both. My current WIP is a series of chapters which have not been laced together yet. My last book was written from beginning to end without side-tracking.

Dave.C.Robinson · Jan 23, 2007

I tend to write in sequence, but when I have multiple plot lines I may rearrange them in the second draft.

finch · Jan 23, 2007

I jump around. A lot. Because I outline extensively, I know what all the scenes are well in advance -- but they each ripen at different paces, so I write each as it's ready. If I had to write the thing in sequence I don't think I'd ever finish a novel.

Carrie in PA · Jan 23, 2007

I go straight through, too. It just works best for me. That's not to say I don't end up adding and tweaking, but I like to just go.

Judg · Jan 23, 2007

I'm mostly going straight through, but if a particular scene comes clear in my mind out of sequence, I go write it. It makes for a wonderful excuse to leave a sink full of dirty dishes.

Chasing the Horizon · Jan 23, 2007

finch said:
I jump around. A lot. Because I outline extensively, I know what all the scenes are well in advance -- but they each ripen at different paces, so I write each as it's ready. If I had to write the thing in sequence I don't think I'd ever finish a novel.

Same for me. I tried writing in sequence and got stuck in the second chapter. I finally gave up and wrote a scene I actually liked from the second book in the trilogy. From then on it was 'what do I feel like writing tonight?'. Sunday I worked on the 20th chapter of the third book. Tonight I'm going to work on the 12th chapter of the first book. If a scene isn't interesting enough to ever show up on the 'I feel like writing this tonight' list, then it's not interesting enough to bother writing period.

Of course, writing out of sequence means a lot of places that either overlap or don't quite meet up in the first draft, but that's what the second draft is for. Do have a good outline, though, or you'll end up with nonsense.

JasonChirevas · Jan 23, 2007

Thanks for the input, everyone. I see valid reasons for both approaches. Particularly, I see the merit in using the scenes you really want to write as rewards of a sort. I felt that way about some of the bits in my serial (which is available for your enjoyment at PulpandDagger.com, by the way).

It's going to be beginning-to-end for me overall, I think. But, in the near term, I'm going to skip ahead a step. Chapter 2 is an action sequence but, after several attempts, it needs to be reconceived and restaged. Chapter 3 is due to be dialogue-driven with more emphasis on advancing the plot. I think I'm going to write Chapter 3 while my mind works on restructuring the action set piece of Chapter 2.

-Jason

Jamesaritchie · Jan 24, 2007

Novel

Straight through. I couldn't write a novel any other way if someone offered me a billion dollars.

ChaosTitan · Jan 24, 2007

I may think about later scenes, and even jot down notes about them, but I write in order. I know from my own experience that characters change and grown and surprise me, the plots often take unexpected twists (just happened the other night, as a matter of fact). It would be a huge waste of effort to write a scene in the thirtieth chapter that has to be deleted because something changed in chapter seven.

jodiodi · Jan 24, 2007

I write whatever the character tells me to. Then I decide where it goes in the book. I've had scenes I had no clue what to do with until I started filling in between already-written scenes and suddenly seeing, "Oh! This is where this fits!" I don't outline either since I never know what's going to happen until I write it. There may be some problems inherent with that style, but it's worked for me. My trouble is the polishing portion of writing. Once I've seen a story for so long, I'm blind to it.

NeuroFizz · Jan 24, 2007

Whatever works for you--whatever gets the draft done. For me, it's straight through.

JasonChirevas · Jan 24, 2007

chaostitan said:
I know from my own experience that characters change and grown and surprise me, the plots often take unexpected twists (just happened the other night, as a matter of fact). It would be a huge waste of effort to write a scene in the thirtieth chapter that has to be deleted because something changed in chapter seven.

Indeed, this is the greatest reason to write straight through, I think, and the best magic I've experienced writing.

Makes me wonder why I asked the question at all.

Looking for an excuse to avoid putting my head down and plough through, perhaps...

-Jason

Prawn · Jan 24, 2007

I have a scence list that I am constantly adding to, and I use that as a framework to write the story in order.

finch · Jan 24, 2007

chaostitan said:
I know from my own experience that characters change and grown and surprise me, the plots often take unexpected twists (just happened the other night, as a matter of fact). It would be a huge waste of effort to write a scene in the thirtieth chapter that has to be deleted because something changed in chapter seven.

Ah, fair enough, that's a solid critique of the hop-around method and yes, I do have my fair share of removed chapters and scenes scattered around on my filesystem -- if that possibility bothers you, then hop-around is definitely not for you. I don't see those removed elements as wasted, though; invariably they've taught me something new about the characters, or the setting, or defined a scene I can include elsewhere, and often all of the above. Even if I never use the stuff I remove specifically, it's still the sort of work that helps get me to the end.

IrishScribbler · Jan 24, 2007

finch said:
...I don't see those removed elements as wasted, though; invariably they've taught me something new about the characters, or the setting, or defined a scene I can include elsewhere, and often all of the above. Even if I never use the stuff I remove specifically, it's still the sort of work that helps get me to the end.

And you could always make a website and include Special Features (including deleted scenes) from your books!

Prawn · Jan 24, 2007

A minor nit that I must pick: I have my ms in a single file that I run the word count on every day. That helps me with pacing. I think that would be harder if you had things in different files.

Chasing the Horizon · Jan 24, 2007

IrishScribbler said:
And you could always make a website and include Special Features (including deleted scenes) from your books!

That's a cool idea! I'm going to have tons of scenes I self deleted or abbreviated for pacing. They are consistent with the story, just kind of 'what happened in between point A & point B'.

Have authors ever republished an extended version of a popular book, including the scenes they had cut for length and pacing? Movies do it all the time, but I've never heard of books coming out with the equivalent of a 'directors cut'. I'd certainly buy a second copy of my favorite books if they included extra scenes.

Straight Slog, or Shoot Out of Sequence...?

JasonChirevas

IrishScribbler

Simon Woodhouse

jess b

thepainpasses

farfromfearless

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

vrabinec

Dipwad

Michelle Hoppe

Sales & Marketing Manager

Dave.C.Robinson

... with the High Command

finch

Carrie in PA

Write All The Words!

Judg

DISENCHANTED coming soon

Chasing the Horizon

Blowing in the Wind

JasonChirevas

Jamesaritchie

ChaosTitan

Around

jodiodi

Reflections of Reality

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it

JasonChirevas

Prawn

Writing is finite,revising infinite

finch

IrishScribbler

Prawn

Writing is finite,revising infinite

Chasing the Horizon

Blowing in the Wind