Competition with other writers

Because...

experienced professional writers know that it's their unique writer's voice and unique way of looking at the world through their fiction that sells their work.

They are happy to pass on ideas and suggestions or discuss writing because they are secure in their own writing style and know that by teaching they will also learn, that by giving, one day they will also receive.

Or, if you truly don't feel you belong, you can always use the door. No big. Stay or go. Your choice.

Because, if it gets down to a decision between Mr. Jerome and another writer and the editor gets wind of Gordon Jerome's ego, the decision is going to go to the other writer.

There is plenty of room for good writers and even more room for good stories well told.

Birol said:

Because, if it gets down to a decision between Mr. Jerome and another writer and the editor gets wind of Gordon Jerome's ego, the decision is going to go to the other writer.

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Damn. I thought we weren't supposed to get personal on these boards.

MacAllister said:

We don't call names, here. And we don't go in for personal insults, Skelly, you're right about that.

I read Birol's statement as a rather simple and straightforward statement of fact, though, not as a personal attack.

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You're the boss and I sure as heck ain't trying to start anything. But it struck me as rather disparaging.

Nope. Wasn't trying to disparage Gordon, but editors are people, too. Given the choice, why would they choose to work with a writer who showed signs of being difficult when they could choose to work with someone equally, or nearly equally, talented who was not difficult? Life's just too short to take on more stress than you have to.

I can understand that, I suppose. I will be the first to admit that I know very little about how message boards work. I guess it seemed out of porportion to me because I don't believe GJ's initial equation. As well, I've come to the conclusion that I would probably continue to write and submit if God Himself came down and told me my work sucks. GJ's concerns are clearly none of mine.

GordonJerome said:

Those five are are collegues, but they are also competitors.

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Gordon, the first thing you need to accept about the writing biz is that there aren't any competitors--at least for readers. It's not like a reader is choosing a laundry detergent when shopping. It's perfectly acceptable and PREFERRED to buy more than one brand/author of book. And in reality, there aren't even any competitors when finding a publishing slot. If the book is good, there's a slot. Now, it might be a slot two years in the future, but that's the way of publishing. In fact, sometimes a publisher will even make a whole new IMPRINT of books if the book is good enough (true story: Harlequin Books founded their new Nocturne imprint based on the strength of ONE book that didn't fit anywhere else. Then they actively started to fill the rest of the slots.)

I mean, let's say there are 500 members, a tenth will be serious about writing, say 50. Of that fifty, a tenth will actually have the stuff to ever be good at writing, say 5.

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Even using this theory (which I don't necessarily agree with) there are 13,000 members here at AW (okay, it's really 12,959 as I type this, but that'll change by nightfall.) That's 1,300 members who could potentially "have the stuff" as you phrase it, and 130 members with whom you could share information on the same level. But keep in mind that each of those 1,300 members, and the 12,700 above are gaining in knowledge each day--practicing their writing, increasing their skill. I've watched people here in the short time I've been a member go from just starting their first chapter to being published by a major publisher for very good money. Orion comes to mind, as does dragonjax. There are plenty of others too. Writers can't exist in a vacuum, and neither can their writing. Even good writing withers without nurturing and constant feeding. Every day you contribute to threads here, you'll learn. Even if you ARE a natural writer (which I also admit to being . . . with the attendant ego-- ) there are still things to learn, about the publishing business, about the craft and about yourself. And, the people you meet here are more than potential colleagues, they're potential FRIENDS. I've met several AW members in person, talked to them at conferences. I've met their editors and their agents, too. I never would have known them without this place.

Point being--if you walk away from the potential storehouse of knowledge inside AW at this moment, you're stepping further into the vacuum. Let yourself breathe in the the air here for a bit. You might find it inspires you.

GordonJerome said:

For the 495, it doesn't matter what I reveal. But why would I want to discuss story ideas, methods of developing a story, or keys to creating the Great Story with potential competitors?

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Actually, I strongly believe that writers have nothing to gain by not sharing information with other writers. We're not in competition. And, working together, we help our chances for success. And not just in our writing (and God knows that if I didn't have my critique partner on my side, my writing would be much weaker), but even after we get the sale.

Example: My publisher, Kensington, bought my book, HELL'S BELLES. They also bought a very similar book, SUCCUBUS BLUES, by another author, Richelle Mead. At first, I freaked out. And then I calmed down and emailed Richelle to congratulate her and introduce myself as a fellow Kensington succubus author. She wrote back. After emailing each other for a bit, we decided to work together to promote our books.

Why? Any reader who picks up HELL'S BELLES is most likely going to pick up SUCCUBUS BLUES, and vice versa. So we created a shared blog, Magical Minxes, which we write in character. Since then, a third author, Caitlin Kittredge (NIGHT LIFE) has joined us, and we're having a terrific time.

Richelle is a very dear friend of mine, as is Caitlin. We've helped each other keep sane (deadlines can really suck, as can being on submission), we've shared marketing strategies, we've shared experiences we've had with agents and editors. And this is all because we aren't in competition with each other. We cheer each other's successes, groan over each other's (temporary) losses. We've been learning a lot, and having fun.

And that's because we're all in this together.

"But why would I want to discuss story ideas, methods of developing a story, or keys to creating the Great Story with potential competitors?"

I smell a troll. But I reply none the less. Why? Because your story ideas might be derivative (you know, nothing new under the sun, it's in the execution), your methods trite, and your keys a touch off tune.

Here's a story idea I've had for awhile. What if scientific atheism rules the world, God is an extinct idea, and wars are fought between mathematical Platonists and those who think math is just a cultural exercise?

(But I've been preempted, my colleague Ron Currie is coming out next year with a major novel in stories titled God Is Dead that brings this into focus, except the wars are fought between postmodernists and evolutionary psychologists. However, this is a big enough idea to spill over into many other novels, and in fact maybe has already been done.)

Cathy and I posted at the same time.

Writing can be a lonely business. I'm very, VERY thankful I have online writing forums that not only help me learn more about the business from other professionals but also let me meet a wide variety of other authors. Some folks whom I've met here on AW have helped me enormously -- HI, CATHY!!! -- and many have been very, very supportive.

MacAllister said:

Oh, see? There go Cathy and Dragonjax both being all helpful, professional, and courteous again.

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Shhh, don't tell. You'll ruin my rep.

Afraid of competition? Good grief that would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

GordonJerome said:

I'm not sure I belong in this group. I mean, let's say there are 500 members, a tenth will be serious about writing, say 50. Of that fifty, a tenth will actually have the stuff to ever be good at writing, say 5. Those five are are collegues, but they are also competitors.

For the 495, it doesn't matter what I reveal. But why would I want to discuss story ideas, methods of developing a story, or keys to creating the Great Story with potential competitors?

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Beats me. But let me turn it around. Are you learning here, or helping others to learn? If you already know all there is to know about coming up with great ideas, if you already have good, workable methods of developing a story, and if you already have all the keys to all the locks, you should be too busy cashing huge checks, signing autographs, and writing your next bestseller to have time for any forum.

If, however, publishers aren't calling you five times a day, begging you to take larger advances, and if your name isn't on the bestseller list, then you probably still have a lot to learn, so this forum might help. If this is the case, you aren'thelping your competitors, your competitors are helping you.

Besides, there's always room at the top. Publishing is an inverted pyramid, just like journalism. The narrow opening, where only a few can fit through, is at the bottom. The top, however, is a wide plateau with room for eveyone who can write well enough to make readers part with their beer money.

GordonJerome said:

For the 495, it doesn't matter what I reveal. But why would I want to discuss story ideas, methods of developing a story, or keys to creating the Great Story with potential competitors?

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See, the thing is we're not really competitors. A reader very rarely walks into a bookstore just to purchase one book. So, say somebody walks into a Barnes and Noble to buy one of yours book, hopefully they will also see my books on the shelves and therefore purchase one of them also.

It's not like a TV show where the choice to watch 24 or to watch Heroes. (Or to DVR the other...)

GordonJerome said:

For the 495, it doesn't matter what I reveal. But why would I want to discuss story ideas, methods of developing a story, or keys to creating the Great Story with potential competitors?

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This theory only works on the supposition that you indeed are a font of knowledge on all things writerly.

I won't be able to write enough in the rest of my life to satisfy a reader's need for books for just one year.

That's why I'm not in competition with any writer.

Mark Twain wrote a heck of a lot of books, and they're all on the bookstore shelves right now.

That's why I'm not in competition with any writer.

Mark Twain (and Edgar Poe, and Stephen King, and E. B. White, and ...) told anyone who'd listen how they went about making stories. That's why I'm not worried about helping other writers by sharing the one or two things I know.