Union writers

Status
Not open for further replies.

RG570

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Messages
1,037
Reaction score
106
Location
British Columbia
I've been wondering the same thing. Is it a real union?

I mean, when's the last time you heard of a collective bargaining agreement among writers? Do they go on strike?
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,313
Union

RG570 said:
I've been wondering the same thing. Is it a real union?

I mean, when's the last time you heard of a collective bargaining agreement among writers? Do they go on strike?

Yes, at least the National Writers Union is a real union. It's affiliated with the AFL-CIO, and it constantly puts pressure on magazines to pay more, tries to get better contracts, and even goes to court on a regular basis to protect writers.

It needs more clout, and the only reason it lacks as much clout as it should is because too few writers want to join.
 

BardSkye

Barbershoppin' Harmony Whore
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
2,522
Reaction score
1,009
Age
71
Location
Calgary, Canada
A question for you Jamesaritchie: Is it much the same as a Writers' Guild?

I would have liked to join the Writers' Guild but don't yet qualify, as they accept published writers only. It seemed a little odd to me, as most trades which have guilds take apprentices.
 

pearl79

...most trades which have guilds take apprentices....

Of what century speak you, scribe? Writers Guild, Newspaper Guild, Screen Actors Guild -- no apprentices. Building trades have some, but even for some of them, you have to be working in the field to qualify.
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,313
BardSkye said:
A question for you Jamesaritchie: Is it much the same as a Writers' Guild?

I would have liked to join the Writers' Guild but don't yet qualify, as they accept published writers only. It seemed a little odd to me, as most trades which have guilds take apprentices.

I honestly don't know very much about guilds. I do know something about unions. Unions charge dues, and use this money to fight for better working conditions and salaries for union members. The National Writers Union has accomplished quite a bit, and could do a great deal more if more writers would join.
 

BardSkye

Barbershoppin' Harmony Whore
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
2,522
Reaction score
1,009
Age
71
Location
Calgary, Canada
pearl79 said:
Of what century speak you, scribe? Writers Guild, Newspaper Guild, Screen Actors Guild -- no apprentices. Building trades have some, but even for some of them, you have to be working in the field to qualify.

Am I wrong? I only know of the building trades -- and that not from any experience. Our local university was in the news some time ago talking about apprenticeship programs; perhaps I didn't listen closely enough. Or it might have been the misconceptions bred by reading too much fantasy.;)

Is the union open to wannabees or only to published writers?
 

BardSkye

Barbershoppin' Harmony Whore
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
2,522
Reaction score
1,009
Age
71
Location
Calgary, Canada
JIMBOS said:
With so many good apples close to the ground, why climb to the top to pick one?

Sometimes the apples at the top are sweeter. :D
 

Jaws

Apex Predator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
582
Reaction score
224
Location
Loitering just offshore on the Silicon Prairie
Website
scrivenerserror.blogspot.com
Jamesaritchie said:
I honestly don't know very much about guilds. I do know something about unions. Unions charge dues, and use this money to fight for better working conditions and salaries for union members. The National Writers Union has accomplished quite a bit, and could do a great deal more if more writers would join.

I know that's what the NWU says, but it's wrong. There's a substantial legal barrier: antitrust law... because truly freelance writers aren't eligible to unionize. The NWU has essentially been grandfathered in, because so much of its membership produces WFH (work for hire), particularly in periodicals and in work that is assembled from periodicals. It's rather ironic that WFH authors can organize, but freelancers — who need those protections even more than do "employees" producing WFH — cannot do so (or at least cannot do so legally).

Freelance writers are not employees. They are management; they manage independent contractors. That means that any collective action by freelance writers that might affect price or availability of their goods falls inside the antitrust laws, but outside the union exception to the antitrust laws. Under US law, only nonpolicymaking employees can unionize, and the owner of a business by definition is policymaking.

That said, there have been a couple of attempts, most recently HR 4346 of a few years ago, to explicitly give artists, authors, etc. the right to bargain collectively. Both Hollywood and the music industry successfully bottled those attempts up in committee; the publishing industry was able to remain aloof because its allies did the work for it. (Hollywood's fear concerns graphic artist, not writers — the writers are already unionized, because they're producing WFH.)
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,313
Jaws said:
I know that's what the NWU says, but it's wrong. There's a substantial legal barrier: antitrust law... because truly freelance writers aren't eligible to unionize. The NWU has essentially been grandfathered in, because so much of its membership produces WFH (work for hire), particularly in periodicals and in work that is assembled from periodicals. It's rather ironic that WFH authors can organize, but freelancers — who need those protections even more than do "employees" producing WFH — cannot do so (or at least cannot do so legally).

Freelance writers are not employees. They are management; they manage independent contractors. That means that any collective action by freelance writers that might affect price or availability of their goods falls inside the antitrust laws, but outside the union exception to the antitrust laws. Under US law, only nonpolicymaking employees can unionize, and the owner of a business by definition is policymaking.

That said, there have been a couple of attempts, most recently HR 4346 of a few years ago, to explicitly give artists, authors, etc. the right to bargain collectively. Both Hollywood and the music industry successfully bottled those attempts up in committee; the publishing industry was able to remain aloof because its allies did the work for it. (Hollywood's fear concerns graphic artist, not writers — the writers are already unionized, because they're producing WFH.)

Doesn't really matter in the least. What matters is how much pressure can be put on various forms of publishing to pay more, and whether or not anyone can and will take publishers to court when teh law is violated, as it very often is. The NWU has accomplsihed a lot in this area, but it takes money. Tons of money, and they just don't have enough.

Anti-trust law of not, nothing stops an organizaion from boycotting pubishers, from putting pressure on politicians to change bad laws, and from taking those who break the law to court.
 

Jaws

Apex Predator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
582
Reaction score
224
Location
Loitering just offshore on the Silicon Prairie
Website
scrivenerserror.blogspot.com
Jamesaritchie said:
Doesn't really matter in the least. What matters is how much pressure can be put on various forms of publishing to pay more, and whether or not anyone can and will take publishers to court when teh law is violated, as it very often is.[....] Anti-trust law of not, nothing stops an organizaion from boycotting pubishers, from putting pressure on politicians to change bad laws, and from taking those who break the law to court.

What part of "any collective action by freelance writers that might affect price or availability of their goods falls inside the antitrust laws, but outside the union exception to the antitrust laws" did you not understand??????

Boycotts do fall within antitrust law if they have either the effect or purpose of affecting price or availability of goods or services. Civil rights groups and the like have found that out to their chagrin several times. So have healthcare organizations. So did the Society of Authors' Representatives.
 

jdparadise

Talker of Good Games
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
319
Reaction score
52
Location
New Jersey
Website
www.livejournal.com
On the other hand, if publishers of [whatever] aren't making all that much money, not only why should they pay more, but how?

Things are different for technical writers and such; I wouldn't at all mind seeing a union for that sort of thing. But with readership perpetually down (outliers like DaVinci Code and Rowlings aside), where's the money to increase rates supposed to come from?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.