The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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Sher2

Re: just making an opinion

Unfortunately, Publish America seems to attract too many authors who are overly attached to their words and, therefore, extremely emotional. I'm no fan of PA, but calling for a messiah is or saying that you've "suffered" is over-exaggerating. Suffering is being captured by Islamic fanatics and having your head sliced off. Suffering is having to live without electricity for days in the deep south because of Hurricane Ivan. Suffering is being forced to starve to death for your political/religious/ideological beliefs.

You haven't *really* suffered by signing a contract with PA. You just made a really dumb decision.

Have you published yet, Publishorperish? If not, then you're being educated in what to look for and what to avoid in a publisher. Some of us, unfortunately, didn't have the benefit of that education. Granted, it's my own fault for not Googling PA before the fact, but that's a moot point at this late date. Am I physically suffering for sacrificing a book to PA? Hardly. I wasn't all that attached to my words, and I have other words. Some PA authors, however, feel very strongly about wasting what might have been a perfectly fine book. I understand your point, but some folks actually are "suffering" in a very real sense of the word and their feelings shouldn't be trivialized. Whenever and however it happens, it's a blow to realize one has been scammed.
 

vstrauss

Re: Good authors get good publishers.

>> Now others have 2 more agents to beware of. An agent that would send you to PA can't be that good.<<

I'm not a betting person, but I would bet money that if Ms. Nussbaum went to PA, the Oscard Agency had nothing to do with it.

- Victoria
 

publishorperish

Re: just making an opinion

Actually, although I've never published a novel (I haven't written one), I know quite a bit about the publishing industry because I was in a creative writing program in college and I got to know agents, editors, and published writers. I am currently a professional writer and a law student. Frankly, I write with an eye toward publication everyday. (I'm also a bit of a slacker so I spend too much time on bbs! hehe!) I understand that people may believe that they are suffering because of this. However, I will submit that they must put the whole situation into perspective. Furthermore, if their work is indeed a quality piece of literature, then they should look to get out of the PA contract (it can be done) and keep submitting it to other publishers. Personally, if I had made this mistake, I would contact PA by certified mail, tell them they have breached the contract, and inform them that I intend to start shopping my manuscript around again. I would do this, because I doubt that they would take me to court. If they did, I think I would have a strong case against them.

**By "professional writer" I mean that I get paid to write. It is my day job.**
 

aka eraser

Re: Good authors get good publishers.

The blame-the-victim dance has been done on this board and others.

Naivete isn't a crime. Until fairly recently if one was to type "publish america" into Google a host of laudatory sites would pop up, including, of course, its own, trumpeting that T-word.

If one were a door-to-salesperson and had 40+consecutive doors slammed in their face, then one opens to reveal a smiling face who says "Come in, that sounds like just the product I've been looking for!": who could blame the salesperson for being delighted?

Some of us have been in the writing business long enough to sniff a scam. Many times it's because we've dealt with lying editors or bounced cheques. Some have been lucky enough to come across sites like this one before falling prey to one. Some are computer savvy and know how to do basic research and what keywords to use.

Others are not so fortunate or experienced or computer savvy but that doesn't mean they deserve their fate. Nor does it negate their pain.
 

JohannaJ7

Re: Good authors get good publishers.

Being a good author means that you can write a good book. The publishing part of it is mostly business, and it can be hard for some people to get into and understand.

Imagine you're a new writer from Little Town, USA. You've got your first novel finished and you can't wait to get it out there. First you need to find a publisher! It has to be one in the US, of course. After managing to wrestle the kids away from your slow, trusty old computer from 95 you go online, you go to Google... You type "Publisher +America". Guess which site comes up as number 3? ("Publisher USA" doesn't give many useful hits. You can type in "book publishing" though and PA pops up as number 1).

What you have to remember is that not everyone is good at doing research. Libraries have computers, yes--but how many people do you have to share it with? How many people have a suitable library near them? How many people have the time, what with children, spouses, day-jobs and so on? Not every new writer realises that there are scammers out there--they just write a nice book and hope to find a nice publisher and sell a nice amount to some nice people. PA's main prey is naive first-time authors--and with good reason. New authors easily believe the "Publishers never go with new writers"-mantra, some won't even blink when asked by an agent to pay a fee--I even spoke to one young man who was convinced that J.K. Rowling paid Bloomsbury to publish her, since "Everyone has to pay, right?" That guy didn't know what a query-letter was, nor did he know how to present his ms. Not because he’s stupid or lazy, but because it never occurred to him to research such things.

For every writer who ends up here (or a similar site), there's another one who is swept up by the PA-authors and their "enthusiasm". They'll talk with a friend who has a lovely book out with this wonderful "traditional publisher", or they'll stumble into an online forum run by PA-authors and so on. Once they've been told over and over how wonderful PA is for giving new writers a chance, and to watch out for the disgruntled naysayer ("a bunch of people who didn't market their books well enough and ended up selling poorly"), it's very hard to get them to turn around and look at PA objectively.
 

keltora

Re: Good authors get good publishers.

I have been a working writer since I sold my first artcle as a teenager. And even when I was a teenager, I knew how to do marketing research and how to spot a scam. It may have to do with having parents who raised me to be suspicious of everything that seemed too easy. But I read every book I could on the writing business. I read every writing magazine. And I learned very early that one did not pay anyone to publish their stuff. One got paid instead.

I am now almost fifty, have three novels published (two more forthcoming), a couple of short story collections in print, several dozen short stories in various magazines and anthologies. It took me nearly 30 years to sell my first novel, but I did it.

What my personal theory is on this subject: Patience is a virtue, hard work will get you what you want, and there are no short cuts to getting published. But too many people give up too easily. They become disillusioned with a system and look for short cuts like PA.

Marion Zimmer Bradley used to say, "No one told you not to be a plumber."

No one told me how to avoid the scammers. I just did.

So I suspect that any PA author willing to do the work would have learned before they signed that contract that they were making a mistake and letting themselves be taken advantage of. If I could do it when I was only a teenager, so could they as adults...

:coffee
 

publishorperish

Re: Good authors get good publishers.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Patience is a virtue, hard work will get you what you want, and there are no short cuts to getting published. <hr></blockquote>

*exactly*
 

Whachawant

Re: Good authors get good publishers.

Naivete isn't a crime.

neither is ignorance... but look where it gets us.

Eliminate the computer from the topic for just a second.
Even when you go through book stores they have references to publishing, editors, scams, get rich quick schemes and they have had these since I can remember. Talking to people in general, also brings about results. No time, too much work. Talk to people at work about it then.
"Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it" .. If you know of people who have been scammed and you have had a conversation with them to drag out details, chances are that makes you more aware of what is going on. If you don't make use of the knowledge, then you have failed life's learning test.
I still say you have to treat the arts as a business. Therefore you need a business plan. You'll find this information in manuals at the book store as well.

"I bet none of you jump into the bath tub with both feet, cause chances are you'd slip". That's what happens to people who go with P.A. ... they slip.

Back to ignorance..P.A. should have been shut down long ago. I've never seen a book published by them in a store, and I don't expect to. With 9,000 authors(I think that's right) that have supposedly been published by this company, and probably ripped off, where is their participation in this? If they all grouped together and fought this scam artist, it would be one more criminal down for the count and a few less people being taken for a ride.:head
 

GigiSahi

Re: just making an opinion

By learning the truth about PA too late, I have definitely suffered and I am continuing to suffer--artistically. While shopping my second novel, I've already encountered brick walls. I'd openly admitted with whom I'd published my debut novel. Say "PublishAmerica" to a reputable agent and/or publisher--stand back--'cause the stuff's about to hit the fan! No legitimate publisher or agent (that I've thusfar contacted) wants to be remotely associated with PA. I can't say I blame them. As a result, I'm considering using a pseudonym and publishing my second novel as though it's my first. I see no other way of removing the PA cloud hanging over my head.

While I applaud this thread for the wealth of information that's here, which certainly acts as a deterrent to anyone considering publishing with PA, there isn't enough awareness about this thread or other warnings about the scams in the publishing industry. Of course, new writers know that scams exist in the publishing business. That applies to any business. Learning exactly who's pulling the scams is a different matter. New writers usually learn who the cons are AFTER it's too late. One could search the internet, the library or ask questions as the day is long, there is no guarantee that the scam artists will always be avoided. For those of you who've managed to be traditionally published and avoid the scams--kudos!

I thought that I took all the necessary steps and made all the right moves PRIOR to submitting my first ms. Apparently not, because I've been scammed. I've mentally kicked myself repeatedly over the past few months for being so stupid. That compounds my suffering. Publishing with PA was not a hasty decision--I search unsuccessfully for two years to have my novel published. Was publishing with PA a short-cut? Hardly. Who is his right mind would take a short-cut through the meadow knowing there are snakes in the grass?

Publishing with PA was an uninformed decision. I belong to a few on-line writers' groups. Every few months, a new writer will join and blissfully announce that he/she has just signed with PA. The more experienced writers, some have been duped by PA themselves, will then break the news to this unsuspecting, new author. That unsuspecting, new author is now left feeling foolish, embarrassed, angry, robbed of a dream and helpless to do anything about it--short of spending money he/she doesn't have to get out of the contract. That's provided that he/she can find an attorney willing to take on his/her case. This is no easy task considering numerous complaints against PA have been filed with the Maryland AG's office and the BBB--all of which have fallen on deaf ears. If that isn't suffering, then I don't know what is.

Could that suffering be compared to starving oneself to death for ones beliefs? No-it's worse! Starving oneself is self-inflicted and the individual went into the situation fully aware of the consequences. As for those beheaded--did they not know a war was going on? As for natural disasters in tropical countries and the deep south, they've been happening in those places for ages--why do you think the land's so cheap? Is that enough cynicism for you? It never ceases to amaze me how those on the outside looking in always have all the answers. Forgive me if I'm extremely emotional about this subject. At present, I am overly attached to my words.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have some more suffering to do. I have to agonize over which fake name to use as a writer.

~ Gigi
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: just making an opinion

If you have a middle name, add it to your byline. If you were already using it, then drop it from your byline. That's all it takes to distinguish you from you.

Similar problems to that happen all the time among authors with similar names. For illustration, one writes as Winston Churchill and the next uses Winston W. Churchill.
 

publishorperish

Gigi

I find it disturbing how quickly you diminish the real pain and suffering of others while insisting that you have suffered more. Because to berate you would be off topic and wrong, I'm going to ignore it. Anyhow best of luck with your writing.
 

vstrauss

Re: just making an opinion

Gigi, you don't have to change your name. The PA stigma applies to your book, not to you. It's not as if your PA book will make you notorious; in fact, it will be so obscure no one will even know about it. You can submit to better publishers under your real name without worry. Just don't claim the PA book as a publishing credit.

>>Of course, new writers know that scams exist in the publishing business.<<

In my experience, the scams and pitfalls that writers most commonly fear aren't the scams and pitfalls they should really be worrying about.

What writers should fear:

- Agents without track records
- Agents who charge upfront for marketing/editing/some other form of service
- Pay-to-play publishers
- Non-pay publishers that can't market and distribute their books
- Bogus writers' services (such as those publicity services that promise to spam bookstores for you)

What writers do fear:

- Reading fees (almost no one charges a reading fee anymore, not even the scammers)
- Theft and plagiarism of their unpublished work (in fact, this is so rare as to be functionally nonexistent)
- Theft of their ideas (again, rare--and even if your idea is good enough to steal, which most people's aren't, another person won't make of it what you will)
- Elaborate skullduggery on the part of agents and publishers designed to steal work and/or money or otherwise make a secret profit (in fact the scams are pretty straightforward, since it's easier just to persuade you to hand over the cash directly)

- Victoria
 

SRHowen

Re: Re:just making an opinion

Victoria I couldn't agree more with your list. I see so often writers agonizing over someone might steal their work, while they blissfully ignore the real foes out there. They are so very attached to their words, everything I write is pure gold, that they fear the unreasonable and many time buy into the scams.

As to suffering, I don't think one kind of situation can be compared to another. While in the midst of the suffering any situation can seem the worst that person has endured, and in fact it may be the worst that person has endured.

When I was in a car wreck at that moment I thought that was the worst thing that could have happened to me. That vanished when the store I work at was held up at gun point. Both those things pale compared to the hell I suffered every single day that my husband was in Iraq.

What really causes the suffering is the inability to do anything about the situation, no matter what. Anything no matter how small or large can cause pain and suffering--:cry Unless you are int hat person's shoes you have no idea what it is to them.

People whose spouses never went to war have no idea what it is like to wake up every day wondering if the knock at the door will come. If you've never had something of yours taken from you--and this includes the dream of having your book published you have no idea what it feels like.

You simply can't compare one situation to the other. Suffering is suffering no matter the cause.

Shawn
 

publishorperish

i apologize for starting the suffering debate but...

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>What really causes the suffering is the inability to do anything about the situation, no matter what.<hr></blockquote>

People who have been scammed can do lots of things about it. My point, again, was to put what GigiSahi and a lot of other people are going through into perspective. These are things they can do stuff about. Certainly, having a book under contract with a disreputable publishing company is a p.i.t.a., but its not the end of the world.
 
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JohannaJ7

Re: More PA woes, straight from a PA author's mouth...

People who have been scammed can do lots of things about it. My point, again, was to put what GigiSahi and a lot of other people are going through into perspective. These are things they can do stuff about. Certainly, having a book under contract with a disreputable publishing company is a p.i.t.a., but its not the end of the world.
What can they do about it? There are no laws against what PA is doing. Getting your rights back is hard work when they won't even communicate with you.

Losing a book to PA, and having to bear that stain, is more than a pain in the arse. Some people write down their life-story, of abuse, losing children, losing lovers, death, divorce, war--and then they lose it to a scam like PA. I think that's something to cry about. It's a huge chunk of their life, something they've carried inside of them, being ruined by a company that doesn't even care.
 

publishorperish

uh

I'm not saying they can't cry about it. They can cry all they want. They can whine. They can drop into utter dispair and never write again. I sincerely hope that they don't. I hope, instead, that they learn from this experience and share their wisdom with others. I don't agree with you that they don't have any regress against P.A. I think that they possibly do.
I also have a lot of respect for people who have the patience, the fortitude, the creativity, and the time to write a whole book. I think they should fight for their books.
 

HapiSofi

Re: Re:just making an opinion

Telling someone who's in pain that their suffering is trivial never works. In my experience, people who say things like that tend to not have done a lot of suffering of their own. Try hanging out with crips, chronic illness cases, and people who've suffered severe abuse. They don't play one-upmanship games.

PublishorPerish, I'm sure it wasn't intentional. If you tell me so, I'll rejoice to hear it. But we're all writers here, so I'm giving you feedback: you sounded like you were doing a bit of a superiority dance.

Should people have checked out PA more carefully? Sure. It's always good to check things out in advance. I'm likewise sure that PA's victims have blamed themselves, over and over again, for not spotting PA's con games in advance. And of course PublishAmerica agrees with you on this point; "Obviously, you didn't read the contract carefully enough" is one of their basic riffs.

But you know what? Dee Power's not a naif. She had several books in print from real publishing houses before she ran afoul of PA. Canada James sells books for a living. Hedda Nussbaum worked for a major publisher for years. Something more than the the naive aspiring writer's proverbial willingness to be deceived is at work here.

Why Reading the Fine Print Isn't Enough:

I have seldom seen such artfully and deliberately misleading language as PublishAmerica uses in their contracts and public information documents. It's all very well to sit back and say the authors should have done more research so they'd know what they were getting into; but the fact is, it's impossible to arrive at an accurate reading of PA's contracts and web pages if you assume they're acting in good faith. Only bitter experience can reveal to authors that PublishAmerica's definition of "available" amounts to "PA won't refuse outright to sell a copy of a book to someone who phones them long distance, with all the pertinent information and an approved credit card in hand, to place a prepaid special order."

PublishAmerica is no more about selling books to the general public than Amway is about selling them soap, and it obscures that fact for the same reason that Amway does: No one who understood the real setup would ever go into business with them.

Here's where the authors go astray: Printing isn't publishing. In a real trade publishing house, roughly half the total staff works in sales, marketing, advertising, promotion, and publicity. All the departments' schedules are driven by sales cycles and the needs of distributors. Of course, this will be wasted effort if editorial doesn't acquire good manuscripts and production doesn't turn them into good books; but equally, the books will be wasted if they aren't packaged, described, reviewed, and distributed -- in short, if they aren't properly labeled for what they are, and put where their readers can find them.

Much of this work is semi-invisible to people outside the industry. Like European explorers who had some notion that they could reach China by sailing west, but weren't aware that there was another whole continent in between, the general public knows that authors exist, and they're vaguely aware that editors and perhaps even typesetters exist; but they're unaware that anything intervenes between that point and the arrival of finished copies at their local bookstore.

This area of confusion is the basis for PublishAmerica's con games. They don't publish in the sense of making the book public, and they barely even print it. This is hugely cheaper and easier than running a real publishing operation. The only problem is, it doesn't work. PA knows from the start that it isn't going to work, but they leave their authors to find that out the hard way.

Some specific deceptions:

They tell their authors their books will be available from the same distributors all the big, established publishers use. This is true. Ingram and Baker & Taylor, the two biggest distributors in the United States, will stock one or maybe two copies of a PA title, to save themselves the trouble of having to obtain a copy from PA in the unlikely event that someone special-orders it. You don't need PublishAmerica for that. Ingram will do the same for any book that has a functional ISBN.

They tell their authors that PA's books are sold in brick-and-mortar bookstores across the country. They don't mention that they're talking about a tiny number of books and a tiny number of stores, because the sole mechanism whereby their books get onto actual retail shelves is that the authors personally go out to their local bookstores and beg and plead with the managers to stock a couple of copies. They don't mention that any author could do the same at their own local bookstores, no matter who's listed as the publisher.

They say they'll help the author promote the book. They don't say they'll send out a perfunctory electronic press release unaccompanied by copies of the book, than which nothing could be more useless. They also don't mention things like their persistent refusal to send out review copies, even when it's a legit reviewer who's written to ask for a copy. They especially don't mention that they don't bother to do all that troublesome sales & marketing stuff. As with their promised bookstore distribution, the only people who actually put any work into promoting PublishAmerica's books are the authors.

They say, with brazen mendacity, that they're a traditional, conservative publishing house that makes its money selling its authors' books. No one who works in the real publishing industry would ever describe PA as traditional or conservative, and they'd find it a strain to describe PA as a publishing company. You know those cardboard mockup computers that furniture stores put into displays of office furniture? If you've worked in the industry, PA looks like a publishing company about as much as those cardboard mockups look like real computers.

Furthermore, almost all the money PA makes selling books comes from their authors and the authors' friends and relations. PublishAmerica says, emphatically and repeatedly, that they aren't a vanity publishing operation. That's true. They aren't. They're a vanity publishing operation that happens to also sell a tiny number of retail copies on the side. They have no sales force and no trade or ID distribution deals, and they give the general public no encouragement to buy their books.

They say that "when you get published by PublishAmerica, you eliminate all the problems associated with self publishing a book." They don't mention that they expect their authors to do every scrap of work they'd do if they were self-publishing. What they really don't mention is that since (1.) their books are sold on a non-returnable basis, (2.) they don't offer booksellers a standard discount, (3.) they insist on setting their cover prices higher than the market will accept, and (4.) their name is a hissing and a byword, being published under their imprint will actually make it harder for their authors to distribute and market their books than it would be if the authors had printed and bound them in their own basements, or had them run off at at the copy shop down the street.

And then, when their authors realize that what they're getting is nothing like what they were led to expect, PublishAmerica sneers at them, and says they should have read the fine print more carefully.

To hell with that. Yes, I'll agree that some of their authors were imprudent. That doesn't get PublishAmerica off the hook. The primary reason their authors were deceived was because PA made every effort to deceive them. Reasonable prudence will not protect you from out-and-out deceit. This is why failure to exercise due prudence just makes you liable, but fraud is a crime. And though some of their authors let themselves be more easily fooled, it nevertheless remains that PublishAmerica's intentions were every bit as bad in their case as they were in any other.

End of rant.

A few additional remarks:

As I said earlier, PublishAmerica is a vanity press that misrepresents itself as a normal commercial publishing company. The basis of this claim is that they will sell copies of their titles to the general public, though they give the public no encouragement to do so, and they don't make the transaction easy or convenient for them.

Think of bookselling as ice cream sold at the beach. Normal publishers and booksellers are like ice cream stands: they've got all their flavors right there where you can see them, clearly and attractively packaged, and they'll maybe even give you a sample to help you decide. You pay your money, they hand you your cone, everybody's happy.

PublishAmerica is like a guy who's nailed a few boards together to make a booth. There's no sign on the outside and no ice cream on the inside. He's reading the paper. You have to figure out on your own that he's selling ice cream, then interrupt his reading to ask him about it, at which point he'll silently push a hard-to-make-out list of flavors across the counter at you. If you then decide to buy an ice cream cone from him -- and they aren't cheap -- he'll give you a slip of paper you can carry to another guy back in the parking lot who's got a small ice chest in the trunk of his car. If that guy has run out, you'll just have to wait there in the parking lot while he goes to get more.

Under those circumstances, can you say that the ice cream in the parking lot is available for sale? Technically, it is. Realistically, it doesn't have a hope in hell of selling. And if you're an ice cream maker who's signed a seven-year exclusive contract with these guys on the understanding that they're going to do everything necessary to get your ice cream into the hands of the general public, you'd have a right to think you've been mistreated and deceived.
 

publishorperish

um

Superiority dance? No. (When I first heard about P.A., I thought it was a valid way to get a book out there. I've never had a book published. I have no reason to feel superior to anyone.)
Practicality, Common Sense, and Perspective Dance? Definitely!

1. I'm not blaming anyone for going with P.A. (Who knows, I might have done the same thing if I had been in a similar position.)
2. I'm just suggesting less emotion and victimhood, and more a$$-kicking.
3. IMHO - I think it trivializes the plight of battered wives, abused children, and all victims of crimes, inhumanity, and mother nature, etc to say that by getting scammed by P.A. you have suffered enough to need a messiah or to give up. That's not me thinking I'm better than everyone (I assure you, I am NOT). That's me putting things into perspective. To be cliche, this too shall pass...(Just don't let it pass without doing anything about it!)
4. IMHO - writing is hard, getting published is harder
 

AnneMarble

Re: just making an opinion

What writers do fear:
- Theft and plagiarism of their unpublished work (in fact, this is so rare as to be functionally nonexistent)
- Theft of their ideas (again, rare--and even if your idea is good enough to steal, which most people's aren't, another person won't make of it what you will)

That's why I was so startled recently when I read a post by an author on a mailing list, where the author said her editor had told her she shouldn't post snippets of her work in progress on the web. Her editor also told her that she shouldn't post summaries of her WIP on-line.

The author posting this is an e-book author, so I'm assuming that this was her "e-editor." So maybe this is a reminder to aspiring writers that some e-book editors will not understand all aspects of publishing, and may even be completely misinformed about some aspects. :eek If the editor gets submissions that have plots similar to that book, will she think that they stole the plots because that poor writer posted a summary of her upcoming book on-line? :shrug And this is an editor working for a reputable e-publisher.

Still, considering some of the others in the field, she was probably fairly knowledgable. For example, she wasn't like that small e-publisher whose owner thought it was a "bonus" for writers that his electronic publishing company didn't have contracts as that gave writers more "freedom"!
 

Whachawant

Re: Good authors get good publishers.

What really causes the suffering is the inability to do anything about the situation.....


Truthful quote.....

Strangely enough all great plans must start small..... the demise of P.A. is not within each of us individually.... its within us collectively.

In order to bring about change one must cause a disturbance first....... all of us, willfully or not, caused something to happen during a discussion that prompted an action. I realize I may sound like a jerk sometimes, but my misunderstood sarcastic humor has brought about discussions not normally posted. Some even agree with me, publishorperish quote:"You need a healthy dose of cynicism." ,...this is damn close to the slap in the face I'd like to give some of the authors posted on P.A. board... and I agree on topics of,....quote ".....I'm just suggesting less emotion and victim-hood, and more a$$-kicking......"... (I have nothing against Caupaux, or Proandcon either)

Gigi,...sorry about your troubled times, but its time to get back on the horse...we are not on the 'outside' looking in, we're here in the same room with a chair and comfort.. we're here for you... now start writing, and (in your spare time) talk about your experience with others. You have the ability to, not only learn from your bad experience, but to teach others. Possibly even write about them.

These on going personal tragedies are proof of how little the public knows about scams and similar crimes. The fact that this continues and expands in popularity is evidence that the legal system concerning certain types of publication and marketing,...is flawed and should be reviewed. Obviously loop holes are being jumped through.
It is up to us collectively to solve the problem and there is enough experience and knowledge on this board to do it.
 

HapiSofi

Re: just making an opinion

Anne Marble said:
That's why I was so startled recently when I read a post by an author on a mailing list, where the author said her editor had told her she shouldn't post snippets of her work in progress on the web. Her editor also told her that she shouldn't post summaries of her WIP on-line.

The author posting this is an e-book author, so I'm assuming that this was her "e-editor." So maybe this is a reminder to aspiring writers that some e-book editors will not understand all aspects of publishing, and may even be completely misinformed about some aspects. If the editor gets submissions that have plots similar to that book, will she think that they stole the plots because that poor writer posted a summary of her upcoming book on-line? And this is an editor working for a reputable e-publisher.

Still, considering some of the others in the field, she was probably fairly knowledgable. For example, she wasn't like that small e-publisher whose owner thought it was a "bonus" for writers that his electronic publishing company didn't have contracts as that gave writers more "freedom"!
Agreed. I have trouble with the whole concept of an "e-editor". Sure, some of the technical details are going to be different, but the whole e-publishing thing is just another way to reproduce and distribute text. The core of an editor's job shouldn't be affected all that much by being an "e-editor".

Let me tell you the weirdest thing I know about all those e-publishing/online publishing/POD startups. But before I do that, an explanation: the publishing industry is full of people who have years and years of professional experience, but are currently between in-house jobs. It happens. While they're in that condition, they always have two or three part-time gigs. Having all that expertise available for hire on a freelance basis is one of the things that keeps publishing going.

So here's the weird thing: None of those many publishing startups hired, or even attempted to hire, any industry people I know. Those companies were started by inexperienced people who vaguely thought they knew what they were doing, and when they got capitalization, they hired other inexperienced people who vaguely thought they knew what they were doing.

Some of the contracts they came up with were just plain ugly. The things weren't malign, or deliberately dishonest, but they were framed by people who didn't know what they were doing. I'm still wondering what the authors did whose publishers went out of business, leaving them with contracts that didn't have reversion clauses.
 

JohannaJ7

Re: um

3. IMHO - I think it trivializes the plight of battered wives, abused children, and all victims of crimes, inhumanity, and mother nature, etc to say that by getting scammed by P.A. you have suffered enough to need a messiah or to give up. That's not me thinking I'm better than everyone (I assure you, I am NOT). That's me putting things into perspective. To be cliche, this too shall pass...(Just don't let it pass without doing anything about it!)
What you're forgetting is that some of the people who have been scammed by PA wrote about the time when they were battered wives, absued children, a victim of a crime, inhumanity, and crimes against mother nature that they had to witness.
 

ProandCon

Good authors get good publishers.

I don't have anything against anybody here either. As a PA author, I respond to posts usually if I think the PA authors themselves are being used as comic material. They are already hurting enough from PA's slight of hand trick.

I thought I read the contract carefully and their website information before I signed with them. Unfortunately the two killer problems, the No Return Policy and the high price of books not being displayed in the contract missed my radar. Actually I missed that information because PA chose to hide these facts from the contract and made the conscious decision to play the deceiving game. Why the Maryland Attorney General doesn't smell the rotten fish is anybody's guess? It would definitely have changed my decision to publish with PA. I hear "You should have read the contract better" from the PA cheerleaders on the PA board. Guess what, don't let your pride get in the way. You didn't think about the high book prices and No Return Policy either when you signed the contract. It is intentional deceiving by PA that you are ignoring and the AG is ignoring.

I did see the No Return Books policy on their ordering information but mistook that to mean the public couldn't return a book not the bookstores / distributors. I don't disagree that I should have did my homework better. When I started the process, there was not as much information out there or I didn't find it. I knew when Kevin got kicked off the PA board there was something going on that reeked of bullsh**. I heard the name Mindsight on the PA board and then the name of this board from the Mindsight.

I've read much information, in between the personal attacks on PA authors, that hopefully will help other future authors make the correct publishing decisions.

Whachawant wrote: "It is up to us collectively to solve the problem and there is enough experience and knowledge on this board to do it."

Whachawant is correct on the use of collective power to press the issue to make PA treat authors fairly or try to drive them out of business. Would I like to see my publisher put out of business? No, I just want them to be what they advertise to be. A traditional publisher.
If they are put out of business because they won't change their deceiving practices, the collective power of the informed voices spoke.

What should the collective power do? Start the list of legal and peaceful things that can be undertaken.

A peaceful information march on their headquarters in Frederick

Anti PA mini camps at major book festivals to spread the word

Creation of an anti PA website that comes up in web searches when PA's site appears.

Publishorperish is not being greater than thou. He / she makes perfect sense to me.

What a person decides to write about is seperate from being deceived by PA. Yes, their personal story is close to their hearts but it was their decision to interject the pain into a book.

All the whining and I can't get back on the horse are dead end excuses. It won't change a thing and the circus continues unless the collective power becomes one voice.

Mr. Meiners and fellow PA authors reading this post,

The time has come to correct the deceiving flaws in the PA business model. If PA can't play by the traditional publishing's basic rules Mr. Meiners, you should cease operation or at least add the No Return Policy and higher than normal book prices information directly into the contract in bold print. You know in your heart that the deceivement is wrong.

Prove everybody wrong on this board, Mr. Meiners and do the right thing. We are not going away and will only do more legal things in the future to spread the information about PA to the unknowing future authors of the world.

Yes, I'm a present PA author but everyday that goes by and I hear the "Sorry, we can't stock No Return Books or your high book price doesn't allow me to make my required percentage mark up," you are pushing me, Mr. Meiners to abandon my book with PA and take up the cause to put PA out of business.

Come on, Mr. Meiners, do the right thing and change the PA business model of trapping authors into a bad business decision. How can an author make the right decision when the contract purposely leaves out two important facts?
 

HapiSofi

I have a theory

I have a theory that we're all on the same side.

PublishorPerish sees complaints from authors whom PA has scammed as an unproductive habit of focusing on their own sense of helplessness and victimization.

I see their complaints as a process of consciousness-raising (to use an old-fashioned term). They've been betrayed, and that hurt has to go somewhere. Way too often, it turns into solitary depression. If instead they talk to each other about what happened, and exchange experiences, it brings them back out into the light of common day. They get a better sense of what happened to them.

They also get back in touch with their own legitimate anger. That's good. Anger staves off depression. It also gets you moving. The reason anger comes packaged with an extra wallop of energy is so you can do something about whatever it was that made you angry in the first place.
 

HapiSofi

Re: Good authors get good publishers.

ProandCon said:
Would I like to see my publisher put out of business? No, I just want them to be what they advertise to be. A traditional publisher.
Pro, it's not going to happen. This isn't a matter of PA changing a few policies and procedures.

A while back I compared PA to one of those mockup cardboard computers you see in furniture stores. Trying to turn them into a real publishing company would be like trying to turn one of those cardboard mockups into a real computer. The only way to do that is by constructing a real computer inside the box, then throwing the box away.

Same goes for PublishAmerica. They'd have to build a completely different company from the ground up, and they'd have to have different people running it. It would be just like starting a publishing company from scratch, only the company's name would already have a bad reputation attached to it.
 
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