The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Re: I think so?

I sense the noose tightening around Meiner's neck. The NY Times "promotion" should have larded his suitcase with an infusion of cash. Wonder if those ads have been paid for?

One day, maybe soon-ish, the Logo's not going to appear on the PA boards and we'll know the house of cards has toppled.

Best Seller?

Over at PA we read:

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The highest figure I have heard from a PA author is 20,000 books and she was picked up by Random House and moved on to become a bestseller. <hr></blockquote>

<a href="http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11084.htm" target="_new"> Anyone sell alot of books?</a>

So ... does anyone know who this author is/was? The highest number I know of is 1,300 books, and that author was dumped by PA under Paragraph 24.

Re: On buying and selling one's own books

Oops, almost missed this one: www.publishamerica.com/cg.../11086.htm

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Rita
10/28/2004
18:26:55

Wouldn't it be great if authors could buy their own books at the same discount given to bookstores and libraries? Wouldn't it be great if we could order from Ingram and get the bookstore discount of 40%.

I am finding that 20% off is just not enough. It can amount into the hundreds of dollars, plus shipping costs are attached.

I know PA gives us occassional special discounts, but wouldn't it be great if we could order say ten copies, or what we could afford at the time of a steeper discount?

Just some thoughts.

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Robbie
10/28/2004
21:47:34

Amen ! Rita, I wish it would happen but I doubt it.

Hugs Robbie

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DJ
10/29/2004
00:04:00

I agree Rita, I could have done a book signing at barnes and noble in November, but they can't get my book because they are showing it is out of print. If I could buy my book I could do several signing, but I can't afford to even buy a candy bar right now.

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aquarius
10/29/2004
06:13:17

It is exactly these kind of issues that concern many of us even if our books aren't out yet. It would be wonderful if something could be done. Marketing would become so much easier.

Cynthia
"Water Bearer Rhymes"
cynthiam.250free.com/

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infocenter
Administrator
10/29/2004
08:31:57

Donna,

Unfortunately, whomever is giving you this information is sadly mistaken. There are no problems with your book's availability at all.

Your book is available through Ingram, the world's largest book distributor, to literally all bookstores from coast to coast, and beyond. A stock check done just now on Ingram's computer system shows that your book is in stock at Ingram.

In fact, Ingram, at this moment, has physical copies in stock, and sitting on shelves in warehouses, in Oregon, to quickly serve the west coast, and in Tennessee, to serve the east and Midwest. Additionally, Ingram indicates that copies have previously been sold through Ingram.

All managers of all bookstores can see this same screen and know how to order from Ingram. They also know that your book is available in quantities of one, or quantities in the thousands. Please feel free to share this with them.

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Joyce Ann
10/29/2004
10:50:22

Info Center:

Is it true that bookstores can get their books from PA at a discount of 40-45 or 50% depending on the number of books they order? Do they have guidelines that prevent them from ordering from PA? If not, what is the advantage of ordering from Ingram, Baker & Taylor, etc.?

I have several places that want to order my books, but not at a smaller discount than 45%.

Also, authors can buy their books at a hefty discount for more than 50 copies and resell them, making their own terms with bookstores, etc. which I recently did.

It seems we really have to get creative and bold to take advantage of all the various discounts by distributors to meet the terms of bookstores, libraries, etc. who have their own rules about where to buy and how much they are willing to pay. Yet some of them seem to be flexible and will work with you.

If this is not something to be answered here, please advise. Thank you.

Joyce Ann Edmondson
[email protected]

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Scribe 75
11/06/2004
16:25:32

I'm wondering whether anyone has considered the possibility that acting as our own distributors might involve a legal question of tax ID numbers, requirements to charge sales tax where applicable, and so forth. Any legal eagles out there to answer a question like this? I'm assuming laws vary from state to state.
Joan

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Excellent question, IMO.

Re: On buying and selling one's own books

Infocenter says: There are no problems with your book's availability at all.

DL's book is Forever Yours, a 200 page novel that goes for $19.95.

According to Ingram, there are two on hand. Two. Got that, Infocenter? Just two. There's a real, major problem with that book's availablity. If a bookstore wanted to order more than two, they'd have to backorder it. Lots of bookstores have policies against backordering books, especially when there's a time factor -- say, for example, for a signing.

So, they could order two copies for a signing ... or decide not to have the signing. A signing with two copies on hand. That would look good, right?

Problem, Infocenter. Do I have to spell it out for you?

Additionally, Ingram indicates that copies have previously been sold through Ingram.

A lie, Infocenter. Ingram indicates that exactly one copy has sold. One. "Copies" is plural, as in "two or more."

Here's the whole deal on Donna's book:

On hand: 2
On order: 0
On backorder: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
Sold this year: 1
Sold last year: 0


All managers of all bookstores can see this same screen and know how to order from Ingram. They also know that your book is available in quantities of one, or quantities in the thousands. Please feel free to share this with them.

Darned right all managers of all bookstores can see that same screen. Why does anyone think Donna got turned down? The managers know that the book is available in quantities of one ... or two.

If Donna shares this with them, expect them to shake their heads and explain a few facts to Donna. Then Donna won't be a happy author any more.

Two on hand, none on order, looks an awful lot like "out of print."

<HR>

A pity that Infocenter doesn't know a lot about selling books.

<HR>

Let's see if I can answer a few more questions while I'm here:

Do they have guidelines that prevent them from ordering from PA? If not, what is the advantage of ordering from Ingram, Baker & Taylor, etc.? Joyce Ann asks.

Well, if they wanted to order from PA, they'd have to pay cash up front and deal with PA. If they order from Ingram or B&T they have 60-90 days to pay. Plus, they have accounts with Ingram and/or B&T, and can put any books they order on the same sheet. That's less paperwork, less trouble, less time spent. Why do you think distributors exist? Distributors are there so the bookstores can order from one place, rather than from a thousand different places.

Re:Best Seller?

I'm still amazed at these people and how happy they are with being associated with P.A.

So James,... Who is the person you're talking about that sold 1,300? That sounds like a more accurate number than the alleged 20,000.

Re: Re:Best Seller?

You can correspond with her over at the Mindsight Series forum which she frequents. Her book is also listed in the rotating sales banner on that site.

Re: Re:Best Seller?

Who is the person you're talking about that sold 1,300?

That was Nancy Mehl, author of Graven Images, one of the two PA books that have been reviewed by Library Journal.

Re: Re:Best Seller?

Thanks James, Dave.
I checked out her sight.
Oddly enough there is no mention of P.A. on her site AND... she mentions that her 'second edition' of Graven Images is being produced by another publisher.
There is life and hope after the jaws of P.A.
:thumbs

Re: Proof Nightmare

"How to Destroy a Village" by Jason Fodeman published by PA in May 2003 I believe sold thousands of copies. At one point it was up to number 35 on amazon.com. Jason got tons of publicity and was on quite a few TV shows.

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com

Re: Proof Nightmare

Here are the Ingram numbers on Jason's book:

On hand: 22
On order: 0
On backorder: 0
Last week's adjusted demand: 0
This week's unadjusted demand: 0
Total sales this year: 132
Total sales last year: 1,113

Not all books are sold thru Ingram.

There could be direct sales from the publisher. And many stores purchase from Baker & Taylor or other distributors.

Re: Not all books are sold thru Ingram.

Very true -- not all books are sold through Ingram.

If few PA books are sold through Ingram (only a 20% discount through Ingram), fewer still are sold through B&T, since PA offers only a 5% discount to bookstores and libraries there. If PA works with other distributors they've never mentioned 'em.

Most of the sales will have to be direct through the publisher, to get the 40% that bookstores expect. Even there, though, PA requires payment up front, charges for shipping, and won't take returns. I've heard horror stories.

No one's claiming to know exact sales numbers -- only the publisher will know them -- only some representative numbers that give an overall impression on how a book's doing.

Need your help.

Could each of you take five minutes and help me. I am putting together a list of bookstores that do not stock PublishAmerica books. If it wouldn't be too much trouble, could you call five bookstores in your area and ask them if they stock PublishAmerica books, then email me the name of the bookstore (Barnes & Noble, Borders, independent etc., and the city it is located in. Email the info to
[email protected]

Thanks

Dee Power
www.BrianHillandDeePower.com

Re: Need your help.

Uh, wouldn't it be easier to list those that do?

Re: Professionalism.

Would just like to mention that I, too, bought Molly's book and have it right here next to me. I wonder how that happened.

Noose... tightening... I feel it already!

Bookstores that stock PA books

Well, Dave it would be a much, much shorter list.

Seriously it would help with my documentation.

Dee

Re: Bookstores that stock PA books

That's okay. You list the ones that don't and I'll list the ones that do. Watch for the list on P&E starting tomorrow.

C. Lee Nunn, you're included. Starting tomorrow, we're tracking your bookstore placements, too.

Sneak preview is now up on both sites. Okay, so it's not tomorrow. Anyway, it's only a few hours away.

Is this priceless or what?

In order to drive the point home to a resistant "editor" at PA, I asked for professional help (editing) and sent a list of corrections that were pointed out by published authors and editors who were kind enough to review the first couple of chapters of my novel. When I emailed PA with the information I also asked for a proper edit to be done, or for my rights to be returned to me immediately. This was PA's response:


I am now taking the liberty of taking my time in re-editing your book, since you have made it very clear that you are not happy with your book.
When the MS came to me, it was supposed to be in its FINAL draft, and the writing that you sent was all I had to work with. You have not followed the directions in making a list of the entire work's corrections and have only now searched out help from "best-selling authors and professional editors." Please do not tell me that your book was not edited. It was
edited. However, per you wishes, I will re-edit your book. Keep in mind, that once I am finished and you receive the new PDF, you will have to follow directions and realize that I did the best I could with your grammar and punctuation, considering the material that I was working with.
I will be in touch once I finish the re-edit in my reasonable amount of
time.

***considering the material that I was working with. :rofl

I wonder, is that supposed to intimidate me? Put me in some sort of place? A real publisher would have just rejected my MS and that would have been a GOOD thing! I could have taken it to critique groups, worked on editing, and by now it could be with an actual publisher!
:head

Re:Is this priceless or what?

I am now taking the liberty of taking my time in re-editing your book,

Click to expand...

----That's your freaking job......moron>: ---(oooops sorry for the name calling...but call a spade a spade)

However, per you wishes, I will re-edit your book.

Click to expand...

----hmmm... and you're not very good at it....----("per YOUR wishes..")

.....I did the best I could with your grammar and punctuation, considering the material that I was working with.

Click to expand...

---Does anybody here think these people get paid well for ignorance......?---


You know, it still reads like a form letter. P.A. must have printed off one for every situation they could think of or have encountered in the years they've been in operation.
Ncq13....you're keeping us entertained,...but, don't waste too much of your time.(lol):hug

Re: Re:Is this priceless or what?

%%WORD1%....you're keeping us entertained,...but, don't waste too much of your time.(lol):hug

Click to expand...

This forum has been essential in keeping me sane! I know that there are a lot of PA authors who frequent this site and are living in fear/denial. I am hoping that by keeping my story open and public they can see that admitting to the scam, and fighting back can be done without completely losing your mind.
I do have to admit that my creativity has taken a beating by all of this, but I know that the ill-effects are temporary. Once this matter is settled, I expect that I will be able to get back to work with
renewed vigor and purpose.

editing

ncq13, I was wondering if we may have had the same editor, but her response and subjects and verbs matching were much improved from the notes I received.

I paid an editor to do it their way and they still refused to do them so I had to have it done over. I understand the stress you are feeling.

Could it be Paula?

Each time they make the corrections, more errors are made so be careful. Also, make certain that the correct set and final proofs go to the printer.

Good luck and keep fighting. It's in the contract.

I am out of the hospital and doing better. I may not be as active and involved as I'd like, but I'll still with ya'll all the way.

My book is still being sold and Amazon even has more on hand now. "used" of course. Some others (online book stores) report that they have as many as 5 on hand but as many as I want can be ordered from the publisher. It is IN PRINT.
Amazon has also removed the "out of print" and now ships within one or two days.

I still haven't received a royalty check.

Molly

Re: editing

I paid an editor to do it their way and they still refused to do them so I had to have it done over. I understand the stress you are feeling.

Could it be Paula?

Click to expand...

Paula isn't my PA editor, but they may have gone to the same school. They could also be from the same temp agency. I have noticed that she likes to add commas all over the place, so the next set of proofs should be nothing short of entertaining.
Please take care of yourself Molly. You certainly are not fighting this battle alone anymore; we are all pitching in and with a little luck we will have results soon.
I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers and will have a seat ready for you at the post-PA victory party.

With all due respect, maligning Lynn...

...for being a publisher who posts here to express her views about PA from people who hide behind assumed names to do so is laughable. PA must be obviously worried, as it is apparent that some of their narcs are out and patrolling ye olde boards these days...

Maryland Attorney General's Office

Stop the presses, please.

Mea Culpa. I have given you incorrect information. I am really sorry.

I finally talked to two different people at the Maryland Attorney General's Office. They have been getting a fair amount of mail regarding Publish America in the last few months thanks to my posting here. Turns out Beth Silverman is NOT the person who was handling PA mail. She sent it all on to the original fellow in the Frederick office. Larry Munson. I spoke today to Mr. Larry Munson, for the first time in nearly two years.

It seems that Mr. Munson is not a happy camper. He was irritated and more than a bit hostile when we spoke. He told me he has NO JURISDICTION to do anything about Publish America. He never did. He will never have. Apparently the letters he's been getting have been an annoyance, nothing more.

<sigh>

I wish to heck I had learned this before I sent everyone on a wild goose chase. I wish the MD Attorney Generals office had leveled with us before now. But it's water under the bridge, I guess. Now you all know some of the frustrations Writer Beware has on a nearly daily basis when trying to cope with our caseload of scammers.

Okay, so don't write to Larry Munson, Beth Silverman or anyone else associated with the Maryland Attorney General Office anymore.

I am now back to the drawing board trying to figure out which office, if any, handles the kind of stuff that Publish America is doing to ensnare hapless authors who buy into the semantic games and outright lies they put on their website.

In the meantime, I do have something new on the horizon, and will address that in the next post.

Please feel free to copy and distribute this post at will to writers groups.

Again, my apologies,

-Ann C. Crispin
Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com

Meanwhile, at PA

<BLOCKQUOTE>I believe that the "no return" policy is simply used as an excuse. Dover Publications, a publisher that has been around for years and publishes mostly history, nature and craft books has a strict non-return policy but you will find their books in most every major bookstore. PA is right--the no return policy is becoming more common and is not a reflection on the importance or quality of the publisher or the book.</BLOCKQUOTE>

<a href="http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/6506.htm" target="_new">Barnes and Noble decision</a>

First off, "no returns" isn't becoming more common.

Now, Dover. Special case, there. Dover does direct sales. (Not everything in a bookstore is returnable, you know -- the chess sets, the Harry Potter Action Figures, the pen-and-pencil sets ... those aren't returnable.)

Dover sells four kinds of things: public domain classics in dirt-cheap editions, specialty niche-nonfiction reprints, games (e.g. crossword puzzles and mazes), and art supplies (e.g. coloring books, paper models).

Dover offers very high discounts. Dover fields a salesforce. Dover publishes a catalog. Dover's cover prices are very low (you couldn't get Hamlet from the library and photocopy it for less than Dover asks for a bound copy).

A bookstore doesn't face a lot of risk in shelving a $1.50 edition of Huckleberry Finn or Anne of Green Gables. Those are going to sell day after day, year after year. Games and art supplies aren't usually returnable, regardless of whether they come between covers or not, and are perennial, predictable sellers. That leaves the niche-nonfiction. You don't see an awful lot of it shelved; when you do it's a classic that's proved its worth (if you are, or plan to become, a magician you will want a copy of Anneman's Practical Mental Magic and Bobo's Modern Coin Magic). They won't go out of fashion next week.

So no, Dover doesn't prove that non-returnability is the wave of the future -- they prove that shelving perennial sellers makes good sense, and that pricing them so low that if a copy becomes too shop-worn to sell it's cheaper to throw it out and get a new one than the cost of employee time to strip or return the book is workable.