How could the editor have missed this?

aruna · Jan 14, 2007

I have just started a new novel of Amy Tan's, Saving Fish from Drowning. On page 9 I have run unto an error so staggering I am wondering how come it is still in the book, the paperback edition, no less?

The narrator is describing how she boght an antique Chinese coffin from a farmer. This is what she says (my bold):

"I asked the farmer to name his price. abd he spit out a number that was a tenth of what I was mentally willing to pay. "Ridiculous," I said, and started to leave. "Hey hey hey!" he shouted, and I turned back and uttered a sum that was one third of his initial offer. He doubled that...."

I had to read it several times in order to be sure that I wasn't somehow reading it wrong. And isn't the word offer here wrong? Surely the price the seller names is not an offer.

Please tell me that I have somehow misunderstood everything. I can't believe that such a big publisher (HarperCollins) would goof up this big.

Or can you name other big gaping errors in respectable books?

Willowmound · Jan 14, 2007

I don't see the problem.

She was 'mentally willing to pay' 1000 (say). The farmer wanted 100 (say). She says she'll pay 33 (say). He says 66 (say).

Or is the problem the awkward sentence?

Sorry for any dimness on my part.

Manderley · Jan 14, 2007

aruna said:
And isn't the word offer here wrong? Surely the price the seller names is not an offer.

Asking price would have been a better choice of word than offer.

aruna · Jan 14, 2007

Willowmound said:
I don't see the problem.

She was 'mentally willing to pay' 1000 (say). The farmer wanted 100 (say). She says she'll pay 33 (say). He says 66 (say).

Or is the problem the awkward sentence?

Sorry for any dimness on my part.

Well, that's the problem, as I saw it. If she was "mentally wlling to pay" 1000, why would 100 be "ridiculous"?
So you're saying, I should not be taking this literally? That it was all her bargaineing technique? I admit that I did take her "ridiculous" at face value. The way you describe it, it could make sense...

aruna · Jan 14, 2007

Willowmound said:
Sorry for any dimness on my part.

It's me that's dim.
I'm the kind of person who pays the first price people suggest and not even think of bargainaing down. You're right, of course.

Saundra Julian · Jan 14, 2007

Sorry, I don't see a problem with the word "offer."
He offered to sell it at that price, so "initial offer" seems fine to me.

Christine N. · Jan 14, 2007

Because she was trying to haggle for the lowest price. Even if she was mentally willing to pay 1000, and his first offer is below that, you never take the first price the seller asks.

I think she could have explained it better, that's true, but there's really nothing wrong with it.

LeslieB · Jan 14, 2007

In many parts of the world, haggling is considered a fine art, and one of the techniques is to make the seller think that you really aren't that interested in what he is selling so that he drops the price. Maybe she was willing to pay up to 1000, but she is still going to try to get the best deal possible.

Willowmound · Jan 14, 2007

I hate haggling. It's tiring. Often, when I'm in a country where haggling is the norm, I just give them whatever they ask.

Then they look at me as if they've just screwed me over. Then I look at what I actually paid, and it comes out to a few cents.

So, meh.

Julie Worth · Jan 14, 2007

“I asked the farmer to name his price, and he spit out a number that was a tenth of what I was mentally willing to pay. "Ridiculous," I said, and started to leave. "Hey, hey, hey!" he shouted, and I turned back and uttered a sum that was one-third his initial offer. He doubled that, and I retorted that if he was so enamored of a dead man's house, he should keep it.”

Aura’s right. This is a pitiful mess.

He should have spit out a number ten times what she was willing to pay. Instead, one tenth, whereon she would have been biting her tongue to keep from shouting with joy. But no, it’s ridiculous, she says.

And “mentally willing to pay.” Come on! Finally, I agree with Aruna, offer is a sloppy word choice.

aruna · Jan 14, 2007

Willowmound said:
I hate haggling. It's tiring. Often, when I'm in a country where haggling is the norm, I just give them whatever they ask.

Then they look at me as if they've just screwed me over. Then I look at what I actually paid, and it comes out to a few cents.

So, meh.

Yes, I get it now. I never haggle, even though I've lived in ocuntries wher it is the norm. It just doesn't come natutally to me and that's why I totally missed this.

I think Offer is wrong, though. The buyer makes an offer to buy. The seller sets an asking price.

aruna · Jan 14, 2007

Julie Worth said:
He should have spit out a number ten times what she was willing to pay. I

Yes, that's what I thought she was trying to say. I read it again and again and it made no sense, until I saw it from the point of view of a haggler.

Jenan Mac · Jan 14, 2007

I'm not a big haggler, but I'll do it. And in some cultures, not haggling is an insult-- like saying "I'm so far above you I'll pay your asking price without blinking an eyelash".

Julie Worth · Jan 14, 2007

In spite of that paragraph, the book looks like an interesting read. Is it?

citymouse · Jan 14, 2007

aruna said:
Or can you name other big gaping errors in respectable books?

Oh yeah, I just read Steve Berry's The Templar Legacy. In two places Steve describes a gun battle between several gunmen. One is in a crowded cathedral in Denmark. After everything settles down, a police officer wonders that no one was killed in the mélange (mix or jumble). Mélange? Mélange is used in both instances. Of course I don't know if Steve or the editor opted for that word, however, if I had edited that book I would have used melee (confused fight).
In another part of the book a bookstore is described with "shelves embracing the walls". While that may be evocative imagery, it is not possible. Walls can be covered with shelves or walls can be clad with svelves, you get my drift. However, shelves (not being animate objects) can't embrace anything.
It's like typing , "I don't care," she spat. One may spit spittle or objects from the mouth but we don't spit words. I know I'm splitting hairs and I'm forgiving of these issues when I read them but I do take note.
C--

aruna · Jan 14, 2007

Julie Worth said:
In spite of that paragraph, the book looks like an interesting read. Is it?

I've only just started it. It's up to now really all just set up, but I like character-driven novels so I don't mind that nothing has really happend yet. I'm still finding out about the main character amd her background - like all her novels, this part is set in China and it;s fascinating.
I love her writing usually, and I think I'll like this book.

greglondon · Jan 14, 2007

"I asked the farmer to name his price. abd he spit out a number that was a tenth of what I was mentally willing to pay. "Ridiculous," I said, and started to leave. "Hey hey hey!" he shouted, and I turned back and uttered a sum that was one third of his initial offer. He doubled that...."

It's valid, but confusing if for no other reason than the numbers are hidden for no good effect. Maybe could have rewritten it this way:

I asked the farmer to name his price. He said one hundred. I was willing to pay a thousand, but now that he started out so low, I felt it neccessary to haggle him down even further.

"Ridiculous," I said, and started to leave.

"Hey hey hey!" he shouted and I turned back

"thirty" I said.

"Sixty" he replied.

And then they probably agree on fifty.

greglondon · Jan 14, 2007

It's confusing, but the interpretation that would make the numbers make sense is that the POV character is showing that they're a haggler. Even if they were happy with the initial number, they haggle it down further.

Julie Worth · Jan 14, 2007

Actually, I misread this the first time--it's not so bad. But still, it could have been clearer. Like so:

I asked the farmer to name his price, and he spit out a number that was a mere tenth of what I was willing to pay.

Jamesaritchie · Jan 14, 2007

Tenth

Yes, this is pretty bad. The writer said the exact opposite of what she meant to say. If I'm willing to pay $1,000 for a used car, and teh guys offers it to me for $100, I'm not going to walk away, I'm going to buy it before he can change his mind.

This makes no sense at all.

But it's all too easy to overlook such a mistake. It wasn't just the editor who missed it. So did the writer, and it's ultimately her responsibility to get it right.

But such things happen.

I wouldn't have used the word offer, but I can't really complain about it. I have heard it used many times in just this way, and sometimes it's better to be realistic than correct.

Marlys · Jan 14, 2007

There's nothing wrong with the writing here--he's offering a price, she's haggling. Even if she'd been willing to pay much more, it's bad form to accept the first price offered--in a culture where haggling is the preferred way of doing business, that would brand her as a tourist or idiot, and she'd lose face in a serious way.

So there's nothing wrong with the piece, just with the reader's understanding.

san_remo_ave · Jan 14, 2007

aruna said:
"I asked the farmer to name his price. abd he spit out a number that was a tenth of what I was mentally willing to pay. "Ridiculous," I said, and started to leave. "Hey hey hey!" he shouted, and I turned back and uttered a sum that was one third of his initial offer. He doubled that...."

The way that I interpret this is that despite the price being more than reasonable (a mere fraction of what they'd been willing to pay) the narrator is brassy enough to suggest the farmer is being greedy in the hopes of manipulating a better price. This definately suggests character to me, with such a bargaining technique.

Makes me think of many a yard sale I have hosted and the bizarre behavior I have observed there. My least favorite bargaining technique is this:
BUYER: What's the lowest price you'll take for this?
ME: $1
BUYER: Oh. [pause] I'll give you 50 cents.
Guaranteed to tick me off every time. It's ridiculously obvious that they only wanted to know so they could offer an even lower price. Never works either (with me).

What I think is wrong the excert is the word "mentally" --I think "a tenth of what I was willing to pay" sufficiently suggests it's internal and "mentally" is extraneous.

Nickie · Jan 14, 2007

Just as Marlys stated, there is nothing wrong with the writing itself. (I should know, I've got a degree in linguistics.) I can also offer an explanation why Anna used the word "offer". She used the word "price" in just another sentence. As a teacher, I also try to instruct my students that they should not use the same word in the same set of conversation or text. I tell them to find a synonym. And that's probably what Anna just did!

Nickie

Julie Worth · Jan 14, 2007

Marlys said:
So there's nothing wrong with the piece, just with the reader's understanding.

And yet, if many readers misunderstand, perhaps there is something wrong with the writing. In this case, the short excerpt doesn't place this in the correct context: China. Even so, some hint of bargaining would clue in the reader.

Marlys · Jan 14, 2007

Julie Worth said:
And yet, if many readers misunderstand, perhaps there is something wrong with the writing. In this case, the short excerpt doesn't place this in the correct context: China. Even so, some hint of bargaining would clue in the reader.

I haven't read the book, but the act of buying an antique Chinese coffin from a farmer suggested China to me rather than, say, Ohio. A quick check of the synopsis on Amazon says the characters travel in China and Burma.

When I'm reading and come across something I don't understand, I don't automatically assume the author or her editor is an idiot. In this case, I might have Googled haggling China, and would instantly have found this, which includes the advice [my bolding]

Ask the price. Even if you think the price is cheap, never show what you think. You should pretend to be surprised or outraged. They must ask you how much you're willing to pay.

Offer 1/5 the price. They might be angry or pretend not to want to sell it.

Don't worry. Just leave. They will call you and offer a middle price.

Offer the same price one more time. They might offer a lower price than before.

Do it again and again. You could offer a little higher price. After the haggling you should be able to buy it at half off, or more, of the first price.

Then the light would have gone on, and I would have learned something--both about the rules of haggling and how to use the word "offer."

How could the editor have missed this?

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