Adding length to finished novel, revise or dive back in?

jsh · Jan 8, 2007

Howdy!

I seem to have stalled on my WIP. Based on Holly Lisle's evaluation criteria, I should bury it for a while and then revisit it later. That seems reasonable, especially since I posted my SYW thread and got encouragement, all I can think of is trying to move forward to sending out queries. I've got three "finished" works, and I think my first NaNo is the best one to work on; it's my favorite, it's the best defined in terms of plot & conflict, and while I don't have a series proper, it seems chronologically the best should I have success.

I have two problems with it: it's only about 50,000-60,000 words, which I gather is too short for a first timer like me. Also, I think there's a lot of stuff missing in terms of theme; making it subtle instead of ham handed, as it currently is. (It's fantasy, and a theme is that magic is a crutch. I don't have a lot of good illustrations of that, so when I'm not telling, I'm showing with huge neon signs.) In addition, it's short on description, it seems skeletal to me.

Should I re-open the document and begin trying to write new story elements and really finish it, or should I go ahead with a first revision and do it that way?

Your advice is helpful. Thanks!

katiemac · Jan 8, 2007

I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean by your options: use the same document you have and add to it, or just revise the words you have? Do I have that right?

Either way, it seems like you may have the answer to your own question. "Should I really finish it?" suggests to me it's never going to be complete if you choose the second route.

Since you know there's plenty missing and room for improvement, go for it. Your doors are open. You can write new scenes, introduce a new character, add a whole new subplot. Possibilities are endless.

Histry Nerd · Jan 8, 2007

jsh -

Do what you need to do to get the story right. My third draft was a combination of the courses you've mentioned: I made a passthrough edit of my existing stuff, and added somewhere north of 10,000 words (3 whole chapters and several new scenes) to fill in plot holes and answer questions my beta readers had brought up.

It sounds like you already know what's wrong with the story. Fix those things and see what you have; if it's as good as you can make it at that point, put a great query together and get it out there. If not, figure out what's still wrong with it and fix that. Then get it out there. If you're a chronic fixer, set yourself a deadline. Write it down and post it on your wall: "I'm going to start submitting this piece not later than the 30th of June." Or whatever works for you. Then stick to your deadline and get it out there.

But get it ready, then get it out there.
HN

Alex Bravo · Jan 8, 2007

Here's what I like to do, find objects or points that occur in your novel and figure out how to bring them in sooner so it ties your novel together, like creating threads.

For example, in one of my works I needed the MC to have a particular device to get out of a jam, so I've found places to incorporate this device so that when the MC uses it, it really isn't a surprise. Another example, to add humor I gave one of the characters an annoying habit that he enjoys but everyone makes fun of. Then, at the end, his habit actually is used to some benefit. Neither of these items were in my first draft...

PeeDee · Jan 8, 2007

I'm puzzling on this too, at the moment. My novel is complete at 102,000 words. I have five or six scenes bouncing around my head that I like, that slow down the pace a little (because I'm worried that even though it covers all necessary points, it's a little too streamlined and fast as I wrote it originally). I am undecided if I want to work on it furter, or just let it stand as is.

Mostly, I'm just letting it be. I haven't had a strong enough reason to dive back in yet. Certainly, "I like the new scenes" is enough reason. I am unsure if they contribute anything that the novel needs.

So it's a puzzler, for sure.

johnzakour · Jan 8, 2007

I'm confused too. It doesn't sound like you should have any problem bringing the novel up to 80k words which is a nice size for a first novel.

jsh · Jan 8, 2007

katiemac said:
I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean by your options: use the same document you have and add to it, or just revise the words you have? Do I have that right?

Revising is wholly alien to me, but...

"Should I really finish it?" suggests to me it's never going to be complete if you choose the second route.

...that makes sense. It's been a while, but I definitely know that a lot of stuff needs to be added. Rather than worry about producing post-revision quality, just get it done and revise later.

History Nerd said:
If you're a chronic fixer....

I don't think so. We'll find out, since I'm trying to get ready to face down my first revision ever.

Alex Bravo said:
Here's what I like to do, find objects or points that occur in your novel and figure out how to bring them in sooner so it ties your novel together, like creating threads.

Ah, bueño! Great reminder, thanks! And there are other elements from my other NaNos that need to be woven in as well, which will help thicken up the narrative. As I mentioned, it seems skeletal, a gossamer illusion rather than a real world.

PeeDee said:
My novel is complete at 102,000 words. I have five or six scenes bouncing around my head that I like, that slow down the pace a little (because I'm worried that even though it covers all necessary points, it's a little too streamlined and fast as I wrote it originally). I am undecided if I want to work on it furter, or just let it stand as is.

Mostly, I'm just letting it be. I haven't had a strong enough reason to dive back in yet. Certainly, "I like the new scenes" is enough reason. I am unsure if they contribute anything that the novel needs.

Which makes me the lucky one.

I'm quite certain that some very important things need to be added, which makes my job relatively easy for the time being.

The hardest part will be giving up my opening paragraph, which I've loved since I typed it:

This was her first novel and she wasn’t quite sure how to conduct herself. She had, of course, been the main character of quite a few daydreams and casual musings; but, this was her first appearance in written prose and a novel certainly had an air of gravitas up to which she wasn’t sure she could live. Whether she would be comforted to know that she wasn’t the first person to attempt to live out this story one could not say. The reader will be comforted to know that she will not succeed in bringing this novel to fruition by “happy coincidence,” “pluckiness,” or “true grit.” Myriad hapless folk have been plunged into the role of main character in this story only to find themselves afflicted with plague, eaten by ghouls, trampled in riots, or, in one refreshing instance, happily married (and disinterested in the narrative). These folk were chock full of pluckiness and grit, and quite a few had cornered the market on luck. She just happened to be the first with three particularly important characteristics to occupy the role, the least of which was an ugly face.

johnzakour said:
I'm confused too.

Mee tooo! I think you guys have helped a lot to give me some focus. This is terra incognita for me; I'm well beyond anything I thought possible, so I'm sure I'll start plenty of threads reflecting well my own confusion, and my questions poorly. :-D

farfromfearless · Jan 8, 2007

I would consider pushing out another draft - I'm really not sure what the current state of your completed WIP, in my limited experience, there is always room for improvement. A little tweaking always helps, but don't go so far to tear it apart and re-write it unless it's warranted.

kwwriter · Jan 8, 2007

This is the beauty of having numerous critique partners. Each one reads through and sees something, or has questions, and then makes a note of that right where they see or have questions...taking a lot of the guess work out of HOW much information you really need in your scene. If no objections are raised, figure you're getting your point across in a section and move on.

James D. Macdonald · Jan 8, 2007

To make a book longer, add more plot.

PeeDee · Jan 8, 2007

James D. Macdonald said:
To make a book longer, add more plot.

The bits I want to add would expound on the plot that's already there. It stands on its own, but there are matters which are only alluded to which I wouldn't mind going into a little more depth. On the other hand, if I don't go any further into it, then it will still stand on its own just fine. You could live in this house, but I could add you a second bedroom and patio.

katiemac · Jan 8, 2007

I have five or six scenes bouncing around my head that I like, that slow down the pace a little (because I'm worried that even though it covers all necessary points, it's a little too streamlined and fast as I wrote it originally). I am undecided if I want to work on it furter, or just let it stand as is.

Maybe you have five or six scenes bouncing around because they're better than five or six scenes you already have written.

Dave.C.Robinson · Jan 8, 2007

Have more things happen and weave them in.

PeeDee · Jan 8, 2007

katiemac said:
Maybe you have five or six scenes bouncing around because they're better than five or six scenes you already have written.

I considered that, but they don't replace any other scenes. They append or expound.

I wrote a tight novel the first time. I'm jsut worried it's too tight. It gets where it's going, but it goes almost nowhere else in the process. I like a big meandering read, and while I'm not about to turn this into one of those, I think I'd like to loosen it up a little bit.

And happily, talking about it has made my mind up for me. I've got five or six scenes to write.

(the worst that can happen is, they're crap and I take them back out, and then the only thing I'm out is a couple of hours.)

Prawn · Jan 9, 2007

My goal for my first draft was 75K words. That took three months. It then took another three months and four more drafts to reach 93K. Each time I went back though I saw more opportunites to make the story better. The revisions were a lot harder for me than writing the first draft. It was a lot more like work, do don't be discouraged if that is the case for you as well. Good luck.

jsh · Jan 9, 2007

James D. Macdonald said:
To make a book longer, add more plot.

Thanks for pointing that out. I will have to keep that in mind.

I have three or four scenes that are didactic; I was cramming in the main theme as though I was writing an after-school special. I want to work in many small events, ones we might not think of as extraordinary, but which are unusual for the world the MC is in. I want a crescendo of those, such that they're not preaching, but building naturally. I think that'll add a fair amount, since the adenture may require more stops along the way to make these opportunities arise.

Would that be adding plot? Or does adding plot mean bringing in a new conflict to be dealt with?

prawn said:
The revisions were a lot harder for me than writing the first draft. It was a lot more like work, do don't be discouraged if that is the case for you as well. Good luck.

Thanks!

kwwriter · Jan 9, 2007

PeeDee said:
The bits I want to add would expound on the plot that's already there. You could live in this house, but I could add you a second bedroom and patio.

Exactly. So as you're walking through the house, you go, "Wow, I think another bedroom/bathroom right here would really complete this floor and make it just right, if not perfect."

Perfect it.

emsuniverse · Jan 9, 2007

What I did with my recently completely novel - a young adult mystery - was write the bare bones on the first draft. I knew it was a skeleton. For the second draft, I added more scenes, fixed some plot holes, switched around some scenes to make the plot better. On the third (and final) draft, I did a readthrough, fixed a couple of minor errors. Overall, Drafts 2 and 3 added 10K words to the original word count.

Just read through your book and make notes on where you think the plot/characters/etc need to be expanded and/or worked on. Then go back and fix it scene by scene. Worked for me.

jsh · Jan 10, 2007

bea914 said:
What I did with my recently completely novel - a young adult mystery - was write the bare bones on the first draft. I knew it was a skeleton. For the second draft, I added more scenes, fixed some plot holes, switched around some scenes to make the plot better. ...

Ever since grade school, I've never really understood what a second or third draft is. (Bear in mind that I didn't start taking Ritalin until I was 23 years old, I've never written a second draft of anything in my life. Heck, I never understood what passive voice was until a couple years ago.) Does one rewrite the whole thing? Or just stick in new bits & corrections?

PeeDee · Jan 10, 2007

It can go either way. Some people re-write the wholedamnbook over and over again 'till the world ends. Other people (yo!) do a quick once over, add in a few scenes, make sure there aren't any big stupid errors and the language is okay, and then move on to the next project.

Dave.C.Robinson · Jan 10, 2007

I guess I go sort of in the middle. My second pass is mostly tightening up the language and catching continuity errors. I'll also restructure the piece if I see a better way to tell the story. Then I do a third pass if necessary before sending it off.

jsh · Jan 15, 2007

Wow! I think I've learned a lot

So, I've been reading my first NaNo, and I think I've learned quite a bit about writing since Nov. 2004. It's going to need a close, paragraph by paragraph rewrite, but I think I'm getting a handle on that idea. There are also myraid dropped threads, so working those into the rest of the story will help fatten it up. Don't get me started on my punctuation!

The amount of telling rather than showing is stunning. The MC is forced to travel through this wicked, evil forest, but there's little showing how awful it is. Instead, I've just got people asserting time and again how awfully evil it is. ::yawns:: I'm going to more coherently grasp the world to make the awfulness clear.

There is also very little substance to the world. I'm glad I've been able to do a few other works that are in the same general setting & time, so that I've been able to flesh out in my mind what it should look like. E.g., it's in an extended dark age, and I've come to want a lot of evidence of some ubiquitous, long-lost past, which is demonstrated by the landscape being peppered with ruins. These are absent now, but I think they'll help in giving substance and weight. Showing these will also help show the fact that there's a lost type of magic (architecture, engineering, &c.), and that this lost weighs heavily, as I feel it should. This is completely absent presently, and only comes up when convenient. Off-hand remarks by the MC about a corbelled vault here, an arch there. Since modern construction uses magic to hold up roofs spanning large spaces, &c., it seems like a nice non-didactic way to work in some of the theme.

Anyway, thanks again for the help.

Misty_Blue · Jan 15, 2007

Good luck JSH I have similar problems to you right now! I just finished my first draft, it's too short, it has big holes in it. I also learned (after I finished it - o yeah!) that it's mostly telling and it's a damn shame that I can't just take it back to the store and exchange it for a good one!

Adding length to finished novel, revise or dive back in?

jsh

katiemac

Five by Five

Histry Nerd

Moving Forward!

Alex Bravo

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard

jsh

farfromfearless

kwwriter

let's not be cute about it

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

katiemac

Five by Five

Dave.C.Robinson

... with the High Command

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

Prawn

Writing is finite,revising infinite

jsh

kwwriter

let's not be cute about it

emsuniverse

Back to freelancing again...

jsh

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

Dave.C.Robinson

... with the High Command

jsh

Misty_Blue