Anyone done an MFA in Creative Writing?

Nope - I have an MA in English (we were allowed the option of doing a creative work for our thesis if we chose that track, but I chose to do a composition theory thesis).

My bachelor's is in Creative Writing, though - I actually had some great classes in grad and undergrad in writing that helped me.

Like Rhonda, I did the MA in English. (Mostly because my grad school didn't offer a MFA program, and the places that did rejected me )

I had a great time, and it taught me a lot about teaching and writing non-fiction. I got very little from the experience that helped me with my fiction writing, though. Presumably the MFA would have a heavier emphasis on the fiction and such, which might make it a better way to go...

I'm looking into it myself. Does anyone have any experience with online MFA's in Creative Writing?

I have an MFA from Emerson College in Boston. I found it a great environment to be in, though I wasn't mature enough to keep myself writing regularly. I also found that I was subconsciously trying to write for my audience. I got away from writing in the style that I normally write in (a sort of cross-genre/magical realism) and instead wrote what I knew would get good critiques (literary fiction). Toward the end of my time there I realized what I was doing and began to head back toward my own style. Now I am very comfortable with what and how I write, and I definitely use what I learned in the program. The critiquing and technique is definitely useful, even if the attitude which places "literary fiction" above the other genres isn't. It was a worthwhile experience, but the best advice I can give is you get out of it what you're willing to put into it. Don't go in expecting to not work hard.

PS-I have no experience with online programs.

sfecphory said:

The critiquing and technique is definitely useful, even if the attitude which places "literary fiction" above the other genres isn't.

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I can definitely relate to that one. I was the only genre writer in my class, and it was . . . interesting. Ironically, I appear to be the only one who's actually gone on to publish anything

In some schools, you'll also run into a somewhat distorted perception of the publishing world. University journals and such are a very different world than commercial fiction. But as long as you're keeping a toe in here at AW, you should get enough of a reality check to keep you grounded

MFA

clangomatic said:

Hi there - I thought this might already be covered on the boards, but I can't find this topic through search. Feel free to point me to any threads if this has been discussed before.

Has anyone done an MFA in creative writing? If so, have you found it to be useful, or is it just a distracting ivory-tower exercise?

Thanks!

Clango
(Working on a novel for ages 8 - 12.)

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Yes, but many MFA programs today are nothing at all like teh one I entered. Today, there are MFA programs taught be real writers, and that focus on real world publishing.

"MFA program" itself doesn't mean much, because I'm not sure any two programs are exactly alike. They can be highly valuable, but you really have to look around, pick and choose, and find one that's right for you, and for the kind of writing and publishing you want to do.

I've got applications being processed for MAs in Creative Writing at two UK colleges. One of them is pro-genre, the other is pro-literature. The focus of both is on writing for publication and they both claim good links with the industry (which is probably why there are 25 applicants for each place!).

I've applied because the course is run part-time in the evenings, so it's a good reason to get out of the house and the office, meet new people, do something I enjoy and keep going with my own writing. I've gone into it in the full knowledge that I might not get a place - but would be happy to share my experiences of the application process on this Thread if it would be useful for Brit based writers? (Or alternatively, go somewhere else if I would be hijacking it!)

MM

National University (nu.edu) has an online MFA in Creative Writing Program.

I've been thinking about it, but it's pretty expensive.

I'm currently doing my MA in Creative Writing at Bath Spa University in the UK. I've also got my BA in Creative Writing from the University of British Columbia in Canada.

The MA is a great program. However, it is not easy to get into it. Only about seven percent of people who apply, get in. If you are going to do it, make sure you apply to a good school. There are only a handful of excellent schools that teach Creative Writing. But there are a lot of bad schools too. Watch out for ones that offer online programs. Bad! Bad! Part time is bad too!

The reason I chose Bath aside from being one of the best? Because agents, editors, publishing companies and others come in and actually recruit us. Every week we have people come into speak to us. PFD, Chicken House Publishers, television networks and more. They want to read our work. Why? Because basically, if you good enough to get into their MA program then you are a good writer. The PFD agency offers two 5,000 pound awards each year to writers.

The other great thing about a MA is the help. You are constantly surrounded by other brilliant writers who (in my case) challenge you to work your hardest. The classes are small (only 5 - 7 in each ) because they only take about 30 people a year. You are constantly critiquing each others work which helps you to focus and think critically about your own.

I've seen a lot of people criticize MA's in writing. They say agents are more interested in the publishing records or the quality of the writing. However, if you are just starting off and have no publishing records then having a MA credit will get you in with the right people. Of course it always comes down to the quality of the writing. But a MA will help you become a better writer.

I have mixed feelings about UBC. I loved getting my BA there. The professor's are amazing, especially Allison Acheson who teaches writing for children and Stephen Galloway who's books are stunning. I learned so much from them and keep in touch even now that I'm gone.
That said, the course has a lot of problems. Mostly because UBC does not want to put money into the film and writing department. I spent my last year there in a classroom that had no heat or hot water. The teachers are underpaid and only offered part time contracts.
The course used to be the best in Canada and now it's considered the worst. It's a shame because those profs deserve better for all the hard work they put in.
I was advised to not do my Master's there. I looked into a lot of schools in the states that included Columbia, Boston, Iowa and California. In the end I chose England because of it's reputation. Not to mention the fact that the UK is the birthplace of writing and the history is amazing.
I think the main reason I'm against part time courses is because of the schools that offer it. The top schools only offer full time courses. I'd be hesitant to spend the money for part time if the degree is going to be useless or not count. I'd look into the reputation of the school and check the track record of the graduates. Are these people teaching or employed? Do they have publishing credits?

Hi, Clangomatic:

As is so often the case, Jamesaritchie makes an excellent point. Generalizing isn't helpful. You need to check out individual programs (there are plenty, especially within the low-residency subset, that offer concentrations in children's/YA writing). I'm currently an interdisciplinary advisor for one of them (check it out here).

That said, there are some general considerations you might think about as you begin to contemplate MFA study. I mentioned some in an article published on AW's site awhile back.

Good luck!

Best,
Erika D.

ghost said:

I'm currently doing my MFA in Creative Writing at Bath Spa University in the UK.

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I had no idea that program was so hard to get into! I actually got accepted a couple of years ago... and decided not to go. I really wish I could have gone because it sounded like an awesome program. But I decided to stay in the states and get married instead.

It all worked out, though. The single life as a student abroad would have been fun, but the married life as a writer beginning her career is pretty awesome.

I'm always curious to hear about MFA programs and wonder what it would have been like. I've heard of great experiences, and I've heard of awful experiences. I guess it all depends on the program and what you put into it.

My story:

I left graduate school in a huff with not just a little bad blood between myself and the professor who should have been my mentor. Being wrong about our field of thought is one thing, being a witch about it is another.

I take solace in the knowledge that I'm half her age and I've published more novels in her own field than she has.

JCHines comment that he is the only graduate who's published anything is apt.

My experience with both MA and Creative Writing programs is that they tend to be a crutch for the average writers of the world who are good at playing "the game" of scholarships and profesional networking at the expense of actual written work.

I'll never forget the terrifying gentleman who was genuinely intelligent and talented. I had to practically pull teeth to get him to admit that he was a writer, and to admit what kind of writing he did. After much goading, and direct questioning, I got him to confess the book he wanted to write. With the languages that he spoke, and his intelligence, he was very qualified to write that book. It was a great idea. I asked if I could take a look at it. He told me, as if I was the crazy one, that he hadn't even started yet. He wasn't ready to write a novel, he said.

At the time, I was finishing the first draft of my first novel. I'm 27 today, with three novels written and one sold. This gentleman was fifty if he was a day. He had been waiting tables his whole adult life trying to make it as an actor/writer. He and his wife had never had children because they were never in the financial place to have children. Then, it was too late.

An absolutely terrifying way to go through life.

When people I meet ask me what it takes to get this far, one of my recurring themes is this:
"The clouds will never part. Jesus Christ, Buddha, Satan, or whatever you believe is not going to descend from the sky and poke you in the forehead and tell you that NOW, NOW YOU ARE READY! There's no such thing as ready. That's why God made editing. You can fix anything when it's written. You can't fix things you haven't written. Get to work."

This gentleman's attitude was ubiqutous to the academic program, and fed by the professors. I was in a room full of English Majors and Writing Majors where people believed someday they would wake up and just know that now they are ready. Until then, it's best to learn from your "betters".

Foolishness and drivel. It was like taking writer's block and institutionalizing it.

That said, I am of a very different opinion about Film MFAs and Drama MFAs. Films and Theatre require a social approach that a world-class MFA program really promotes. Thus can one network in the industry and learn next to the future major players of the industry, and build the contacts that make a career possible.

Writing novels does not require that level of networking, at all. In fact, I am of the opinion that it can be damaging to writers who let negativity get to them - like me.

One or two workshops is fine. Writing workshops work just as well. So do writer groups. MFAs are a very expensive way to spend your life slinging coffee or grading garbled Freshman term papers.

edit: my experience was at the University of Houston, at the time USNews ranked their Writing program at #3 tied with Johns Hopkins, by the way. I did undergrad work there, which I don't regret at all. But, it was an expensive way to get a job slinging coffee at starbucks, and mytime with different writer groups worked just as well for free.

badducky said:

My story:


My experience with both MA and Creative Writing programs is that they tend to be a crutch for the average writers of the world who are good at playing "the game" of scholarships and profesional networking at the expense of actual written work.

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You've been around thr wrong programs. The number of famous writers to come through either MA programs, creative writing programs, or through MFA programs, is legion.

Some wannabe writers use everything as a crutch, and certainly don't need a creative writing program, or an MFA program, to avoid doing actual work.

Most wannabe writers in any program will fail. So will about 99% of all writers who don't go through these programs. It isn't fair say those inside such programs use them as a crutch or an excuse unless you also compare numbers of those outside of such programs who do the same.

Go down the list of successful writers, and MA;s are extremely common. So are college creative writing prograns, and MFA programs. The percentage is incredibly high, and tis is no coincidence.

An MA, a college creative writing program, or an MFA is just as useful as the person taking the course wants to make it. Some writers waste it, some can handle the pressure and drop out, but many, many writers put them to good use and go on to be the writers we all know and love.

Yes. MFA, U. of Iowa. Thesis advisor was John Irving. Raymond Carver, John Cheever and Anthony Burgess were there during the time I was. Joe Haldeman and Tracy Kidder were students.

Apparently none of it helped any.

caw

Yes, and as a grad student, my mailbox was right under Alice McDermott's, James. I've workshopped with more than a few very well-known writers.

And, oddly enough, it wasn't that such a thing wasn't useful, it's that it was useful to a point. Unfortunately, people start writing for workshop instead of their true audience, and for class instead of for print. Then, when that motivation is gone, and the degree is in their hands, so to is the drive to write.

The MFA-grads still have to compete in the marketplace with people who spent those years writing for print and publication. Their education did not necessarily give them a leg up, because talent and determination cannot be taught.

If you ask me, without talent and determination one wouldn't be getting into Grad school in the first place. It's talent and writing that gets you in, not grades.

That said...not everyone goes to grad school to become a writer. Some go because they want to teach. Everyone has their own reasons. So what if they don't become writers. I know a girl who has no intentions of ever trying to publish her work. It's her decision.

It's silly to assume that everyone who gets their MA or MFA in Creative Writing is going to be a famous writer. That's like saying everyone who goes through Med school becomes a Doctor. And that's not true.

I finished an MFA in 2005. Because I had deadlines to meet, I sat down and wrote every night for at least a few hours (sometimes for many), and that was the greatest benefit I derived from the program. I had to make time to write.

Since then I've published several short stories and articles, but as far as I know, almost no one else in my program (which was fairly new and small) has published yet. I think that is partly because no aspect of our program focused on publishing or how to go about it. I had to find that out on my own.

ghost said:

If you ask me, without talent and determination one wouldn't be getting into Grad school in the first place. It's talent and writing that gets you in, not grades.

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You'd like to think that, wouldn't you?

Is an MFA in Creative Writing worth getting then? My goal was to go for an MFA after I finished my undergrad program (in English Education). I've gone back and forth as to whether or not I should pursue an MFA or do something more "practical".

Depends on what you want to do. My undergrad degree was in education also, and I taught elementary or middle school for several years. After I got my MFA, I decided to teach at the college level. I teach English and writing courses for 3 colleges now, and of course I'm hoping to one day get on full-time at one of them (adjunct pay is low). Someone else who was in my MFA program got a good job in advertising.

Many colleges/universities will choose someone with an MFA in Creative Writing to teach writing courses over someone with an MA in English. However, the elusive Ph.D. still seems to be the magic degree that opens doors in Academia.