Too short?

SK Kane · Jan 2, 2007

I just finished the first draft of an urban fantasy novel, and it clocks in just over 60,000 words.

This is something of a first for me, as I'm usually looking to cut down my word count when I revise. The traditional fantasy I'm currently shopping is 120,000 and one agent told me I ought to lose 20K of it.

Well, now I feel like I'm in the opposite situation. Is 60K simply too short for an adult novel? I've read estimates that place the floor of adult novels at 75K or 80K. Do I need to concentrate on finding places to expand my novel as I enter the revision process?

IHeartWriting · Jan 2, 2007

Why not check the guidelines of publishers you're considering submitting to?

Arkie · Jan 2, 2007

This word count guideline is from the 2007 Writer’s Market guide:

Up to 1,000 words = short story, flash fiction or vignette.
1,000-6,000 words = short story.
6,000-15,000 words = long story or novelette.
15,000-45,000 words = novella.
45,000-120,000 words = novel (though most commonly 50,000-80,000).

rugcat · Jan 2, 2007

SK Kane said:
Is 60K simply too short for an adult novel?

This has been addressed in threads before. 60K for an Urban Fantasy is very short - 80 K seems to be the lower limit, 90K to 100K seems to be more the norm.

It may be possible to sell it as is, but it's hard enough for an unknown to sell a book without your placing additional obstacles in the way. I would strongly urge you to bring it up to at least 80K to give yourself the best chance.

MyFirstMystery · Jan 2, 2007

Another possibility is to keep the length (why pad a good story?) and write another of that length. A number of my favorite books in the fantasy realm include novellas or novelettes that supplement an ongoing story line.

Just an idea!

MFM

maddythemad · Jan 2, 2007

I would guess that it's a bit short but not drastically too short. Can you add a subplot or something to flesh it out and make it longer? Or, can you market it as YA? For a YA fantasy novel, 60k is a good length.

farfromfearless · Jan 2, 2007

I've read in a few places where the length of a particular work was in question. The general feeling (and I can attest to this) is that there are some ideas that might seem suited for a full novel but work better as a short story or novella/novelette. The reverse is true as well. In the case of your story, perhaps it is one of those cases where it really might work better in a shorter format rather than seeking to add additional material for the sake of increasing word count.

maestrowork · Jan 2, 2007

If the story is 60K then it's 60K. It's still within range. Just make sure it's brilliant. Nicholas Sparks' The Notebook is only 57K long -- it was good enough to get published and become a best seller.

vrabinec · Jan 3, 2007

I wonder how many words The Old Man and the Sea was. When I'm taking a three hour flight, I prefer a short book to a long one. I would think 60,000 is fine.

Julie Worth · Jan 3, 2007

Do a James Patterson on it. Break it up into a hundred and twenty two-page chapters. That will add fifty pages or so. Then multiply your page count by 250, and voila, you have a marketable length!

giftedrhonda · Jan 3, 2007

LOL @ Julie...I might have to use those sage words of wisdom for myself. haha.

I tend to write short. I was told by several agents that my 65k manuscript was too short. Just something to keep in mind.

rugcat · Jan 3, 2007

maestrowork said:
If the story is 60K then it's 60K. It's still within range. Just make sure it's brilliant. Nicholas Sparks' The Notebook is only 57K long -- it was good enough to get published and become a best seller.

Yes, anything's possible if you are brilliant enough or lucky enough. But it doesn't hurt to be realistic and to give yourself the best chance.

You might want to consider this: How many debut Urban Fantasy novels of 60K have been published in the last few years by major publishers? (Roc, Eos. Ace, etc.) If you believe your book is perfect as is and that you are talented enough to buck the odds, by all means go for it. But what would you say if an editor told you, we love it, we'll publish it, but you need to make it longer? Would you stand on principle and refuse?

Real world considerations are not a bad thing

SK Kane · Jan 3, 2007

Thanks for the insights.

I've been writing long enough to know that a novel is rarely perfect as is. So far, my critiquers have said that my prose style in this novel is "lean", so expansion seems like a great idea. Hopefully I can add about 20K in revision. I'm off to a good start, I think. After revising the first chapter today, I'm up just over 61,000. Hopefully, I can get close to 80,000 by the end of this revision.

But would just short of 80,000 also be too short?

I think the shortening factors in this novel are twofold. First, in the transition to modern fantasy I adopted a sparse style, ignoring my usual elaborate medieval impulses. Second, the time-frame of this novel is short, happening within the span of only three weeks. I think it has a lot of promise for expansion, though. Most of my novels do gather additional scenes in revision. Anymore, I tend to err on the side of being less verbose.

BiggerBoat · Jan 4, 2007

If you hit around 75k I think you'd be in pretty good shape. I've read a fair bit of urban fantasy this year, and it tends to range from 80k-110k (discounting oddities such as Simon Green's "Walk on the Nightside", which was probably around 50 or 60k). As an unpublished novelist, I think it's better to err on the side of lean than fat.

That said, if you can punch things up to around 80 or 85 than I think it would cease to become an issue.

In adding meat, I'd consider opportunities for subplots and scenes that add depth and interest to your story. I'd be wary of adding words for words sake .. but I'm sure you know that.

SK Kane · Jan 4, 2007

I'm certainly not in favor of adding words for words sake. But this novel is also my first foray into first person narration. I usually go with third. The critiquers have been telling me that they'd like more insight into what the viewpoint character is thinking and feeling, and so I think that's a pretty good way to drive revision. I doubt I'll need to add a subplot, but maybe a scene or two in addition to the fleshing out of my character's inner life.

johnzakour · Jan 4, 2007

If it was me I'd bump it up 20K. Add some more thoughts from your character's perspective, dig into the story a bit more. I think you'll be surprised at how easy it is.

engmajor2005 · Jan 4, 2007

My first novel is around 73k, and that's having stretched all I can from it. It simply didn't need to be any longer. Now with that being said, if an editor told me "We love it. We can sell it. We'll publish it...if you can add about 20k to it" my response would be to ask how long did I have to do so and is there anything specific the editor would like to see.

Why? Because I want to get published, and I'm not in a position to bargain too hard. I'm sure Stephen King could write a novel that was 10k long, in the first person, with a prologue, and it would get published. And fly off the racks.

But the previous poster does have a good point about Nicholas Sparks. His novel was only 57k, he was a virtual unknown (he had written one book before), and it was marketed as an adult book. But also only one agent even bothered to read the whole manuscript, so Mr. Sparks had a good friend named Luck riding shotgun.

My answer to your question? Go ahead and start revising. If it needs fleshing out for the story's sake, then flesh out. If not, then go for it and see what happens.

maestrowork · Jan 5, 2007

I would strongly suggest against padding the ms. just to add 20K words, though. If you must make it longer, try to add more scenes to develop characters, rev up the tension and conflicts, and add more subplots.

johnzakour · Jan 5, 2007

maestrowork said:
I would strongly suggest against padding the ms. just to add 20K words, though. If you must make it longer, try to add more scenes to develop characters, rev up the tension and conflicts, and add more subplots.

Okay, now that's what I would call padding. ;-)

The good news is, after pondering some more, I don't think anybody would not buy it because it's only 60K words. If a publisher likes it but thinks it too short then they can ask you to bump it up.

engmajor2005 · Jan 5, 2007

johnzakour said:
Okay, now that's what I would call padding. ;-)

The good news is, after pondering some more, I don't think anybody would not buy it because it's only 60K words. If a publisher likes it but thinks it too short then they can ask you to bump it up.

No, I consider padding to be adding words for words sake. Flowery prose that describes how beautiful the ballpoint pen on the detective's desk is, and how that ballpoint pen is a symbol for all that is right in the world. Or long passages of dialogue that do nothing for the story or give insight into the characters. Padding is just that; it's there to exist and nothing more.
Adding subplots that draw the reader closer to the character or better develop that character's personality, or give the reader another bite to chew on, isn't padding. It's fleshing.

johnzakour · Jan 5, 2007

engmajor2005 said:
No, I consider padding to be adding words for words sake. Flowery prose that describes how beautiful the ballpoint pen on the detective's desk is, and how that ballpoint pen is a symbol for all that is right in the world. Or long passages of dialogue that do nothing for the story or give insight into the characters. Padding is just that; it's there to exist and nothing more.
Adding subplots that draw the reader closer to the character or better develop that character's personality, or give the reader another bite to chew on, isn't padding. It's fleshing.

See, now that's why I wasn't an English Major. To me, padding is a generic term for making the book longer. I would say there is helpful padding and not so helpful padding.

J.S Greer · Jan 5, 2007

johnzakour said:
I would say there is helpful padding and not so helpful padding.

I would agree. There are instances where "Padding" works, but I call it "fleshing out".

SK Kane · Jan 5, 2007

I just finished chapter 6 in my first solid revision. Now, I can so clearly see where the novel reads like third person, though I'm writing in first person. There are even some points in these early chapters where I use third person pronouns by mistake. This novel is my first attempt at a first person story, and I had some learning to do. Exploring the viewpoint character's inner thoughts and feelings regularly throughout each chapter is something new to me, and now that I read through my first draft, it seems like a glaring omission.

After revising Chapters 1 thru 6, I'm already up to 63,000+, so I'm confident that by the end of revising Chapter 27 I'll be up over 70,000, at least. Hopefully close to 75,000. I'm hoping that there might be a good opportunity to add a scene or two as I revise. I won't add scenes for the sake of more scenes, but I will if the story demands it. In the past, I've added scenes to novels in the revision process at the request of my critiquers, without regard to word count, and I have enjoyed the process. I'm hoping there may be a chance here, too, especially since it would help me get close to that elusive 80K

SK Kane · Jan 8, 2007

Thanks, everyone, for your advice. I'm now exactly halfway through revision and I'm up to 66,800 and change. My narrative truly is too lean in the first draft. I'm confident I'll get up, well over 70,000 after the full revision. Hopefully near 75K. I'm not sure I can get it up as far as 80K, though. If I'm under 80K, or even just under 75K, could it hurt my chances with agents?

Too short?

SK Kane

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