In a novel, can you insult an existing company or brand without any trouble?
I want a character to mention how a certain company "sucks".
I want a character to mention how a certain company "sucks".
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My thought is I'd avoid it unless you're of the caliber of Stephen King.
For one thing, that corporation has a ton more money than you do and can throw it at frivolous lawsuits like someone writing, "That company sucks."
For another, I'd just avoid it for the sake of alienating some readers who might actually like that company. Why risk that?
Unless it's non-fiction, it's often best to leave out personal diatribes like that in fiction.
For one thing, that corporation has a ton more money than you do and can throw it at frivolous lawsuits like someone writing, "That company sucks."
For another, I'd just avoid it for the sake of alienating some readers who might actually like that company. Why risk that?
Unless it's non-fiction, it's often best to leave out personal diatribes like that in fiction.
Dario D. said:
My question is, why would you want to?
The Simpsons and David Letterman do it all the time, but for somebody starting out I think it would more prudent to play nice with everybody. No use starting out making enemies.
johnzakour said:
Unless you're a rapper and want to bring the negative publicity your way ...oh wait...this is a message board for writing isn't it? Nevermind.
Don't do it....as another poster stated, just make up another company.
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Um, if a character thinks something sucks then why on earth not say so? Unlkess they are spouting factually false accustations the fact that Mary Treehugger thinks MacDonalds sucks is an important part of her character unlikely you cause even a raised eyebrow at head office. I personally, as a reader, find invented cover brands annoying and distracting.
Why does your character have to say that company sucks? How important is it to the story?
I think you'll be fine, as long as its obvious that your character isn't speaking for you.
I think you'll be fine, as long as its obvious that your character isn't speaking for you.
I agree. I'm all for political writings, fiction or otherwise, but don't just put in anti-corporation diatribes for the sake of it. Now, if you want to talk about how a certain fast food chain forces animals to cannibalize and pumps artificial fats into their foods, by all means go ahead. But don't call the company McDonald's; that is shaky grounds, especially if the book goes big. But don't make up a silly name either like "McRonald's", come up with something better. Savvy readers will know who you speak of.
If I want to have a character dislike McDonald's food, then why don't I just say he didn't like fast food? Let people decide if you're ranting against McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's, and so on.
Instead of He stopped at McDonald's and ordered a Number 6, not best pleased to be doing so because the Double Cheesburger could essentially be called grease on a bun, and he got a coke too, even though they always put too much carbonation into it, those pot-headed kids working back there.
Why not just do He stopped and got a cheap burger and drink from a fast food burger joint along the road and enjoyed neither of them in the slightest. They did the trick and, filled up, he kept on going.
The diatribe better be necessary, or it's excess.
And I share veinglory's dislike of made-up brands. It works sometimes in comics (Sluggy Freelance has the PlayStayShun Puny instead of the Playstation Portable, for example) but mostly, if I read in your novel that he slipped on his Snike's, I'm going to think it's very silly.
Instead of He stopped at McDonald's and ordered a Number 6, not best pleased to be doing so because the Double Cheesburger could essentially be called grease on a bun, and he got a coke too, even though they always put too much carbonation into it, those pot-headed kids working back there.
Why not just do He stopped and got a cheap burger and drink from a fast food burger joint along the road and enjoyed neither of them in the slightest. They did the trick and, filled up, he kept on going.
The diatribe better be necessary, or it's excess.
And I share veinglory's dislike of made-up brands. It works sometimes in comics (Sluggy Freelance has the PlayStayShun Puny instead of the Playstation Portable, for example) but mostly, if I read in your novel that he slipped on his Snike's, I'm going to think it's very silly.
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I guess it depends how you go about it and how much it really has to do with the story, although personally I'd steer clear of personal diatribes as it can be a real turn off some readers.
Speaking as a voracious fiction reader myself I despise it when an author suddenly decides to beat me over the head with his/her political views, whether I agree with them or not, especially when it really has nothing to do with the story.
Depending upon what context it is in it can sometimes come across like an author is showing disdain for anyone whom doesn't hold their view of things, whether that be for certain products, places or political views. Personally I can think of at least one author whom I used to really like until he began to use his characters as nothing but proxies, using them to vent his contempt of all things politically incorrect until I couldn't help but take some of it personal. His characters began to degrade into nothing but statistic spouting sloganeers whom came across as unnatural and phony as 3rd rate actors from a public service annoucement, since then I haven't wasted my time with any of his novels.
Although I'm talking about an extreme example, and that's just my opinion as one reader and a newbie/wannabe writer. So take it for whatever it's worth, but it has always been one of my pet peeves.
Speaking as a voracious fiction reader myself I despise it when an author suddenly decides to beat me over the head with his/her political views, whether I agree with them or not, especially when it really has nothing to do with the story.
Depending upon what context it is in it can sometimes come across like an author is showing disdain for anyone whom doesn't hold their view of things, whether that be for certain products, places or political views. Personally I can think of at least one author whom I used to really like until he began to use his characters as nothing but proxies, using them to vent his contempt of all things politically incorrect until I couldn't help but take some of it personal. His characters began to degrade into nothing but statistic spouting sloganeers whom came across as unnatural and phony as 3rd rate actors from a public service annoucement, since then I haven't wasted my time with any of his novels.
Although I'm talking about an extreme example, and that's just my opinion as one reader and a newbie/wannabe writer. So take it for whatever it's worth, but it has always been one of my pet peeves.
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Depends on how you want that mention to go, e.g. if you want your character to say "[COMPANY] blows" then you're on safer ground than if you say "[COMPANY] blows because they employ slave labour, rape labradors in the basement and put dead baby brains in all their products to control the masses". To be honest, I'd go with what everyone else here says and avoid the mention altogether.
As a sidenote, if you're ever looking to publish in the UK, be aware that we have some of the most plaintiff friendly libel law in the world and there are many companies who love taking advantage of it (cough-McLibel-cough).
MM
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I don't know if these would really count as insults against McDonald's. Also, the character is saying this stuff right after seeing some gossips at her best friend's funeral, so she's not exactly in a cheery mood, and later she praises their yummy french fries. If you guys could share your opinion, it would be really helpful.
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Well I did mention Coke and Pepsi...referring to them as two corporate big boys...
and I mentioned the Quaker on the oatmeal box, and poked fun at him but I didn't say Quaker Oats...does that count. I really have to have that Quaker in my book?
and I mentioned the Quaker on the oatmeal box, and poked fun at him but I didn't say Quaker Oats...does that count. I really have to have that Quaker in my book?
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kimmi 57 said:
A Quaker and Quaker Oats are two different things, and despite your context it might be easily misconstruded. In any case, I have read many novels and shorts where brand names are referenced in both positive and neagtive terms. I'm assuming you're writing fiction, so if you are then it's really your character's opinion. If you're writing nonfiction, I think this is where the grey area comes in.
Even so, I'm thinking of Michael Crichton's "Airframe" (though I only read the first half of it) where he has fictional names (not sure of this list, it's from memory) for airlines, airplane manufacturers, jet engine makers/suppliers, TV networks, daily TV news/entertainment shows and hosts. You'd think he was afraid of ever mentioning an actual brand name.Shadow_Ferret said:
I had a college friend who joked about getting a job at Burger Doodle, I think you can use than name.
And is Tornadoboy in a State Of Anger, or what???
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Thanks for the suggestions, all. I agree with veinglory that if something needs to be said, why should I feel restrained from saying it? I happen to live in a free country, where you can say what you want (as long as it isn't false, and doesn't do ill-founded damage to a person/business).veinglory said:
I mean, the US is a free country, right? And, other authors do it. Is there really anything that can be said that'll stop me, without being able to sue my publisher's socks off if they try to censor such a thing?
What I plan to do is have a character say how badly the AOL internet service sucks, citing a computer magazine's article about how they have the highest user dissatisfaction with the service. It's an old citation, from several years ago, so my very next stop after posting on this forum is heading over to a technology forum and asking if there are any more recent citations, and if AOL users really do still have a problem with it. If they don't, I'm going to find some other example of a business that is hated (for good reason), because the main character is making a comparison between an unnamed fast food that he's visiting, and a popular service that is worthy of shame, and how so many people flock to it, while actively complaining about their weight/service.
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How necessary is that to the story? I mean, that sounds like a rant to me. A supported with fact rant, but a rant nonetheless.
Is putting AOL and thier track record completely necessary to the telling of the story or is it just a personal author jab?
Is putting AOL and thier track record completely necessary to the telling of the story or is it just a personal author jab?
It's entirely neccessary, and defines this character's manner. He is an activist in the story, and publicly moves against many issues in society, so I think it only makes sense to allow him to say what he needs to say, and be who he is. The entire book is about a cultural purification movement.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with a character disliking or liking something, if it advances the character somehow.
"How can you eat that crap?" he asked. I shoveled half the cheeseburger in my mouth. "It's just nasty."
"I like MacDonald's," I said. It was true. I loved a nice warm cheeseburger with extra onions.
Nate shook his head. "It's vile. No one should eat that stuff. Why can't you just get a Snicker's bar for lunch like everyone else?"
"How can you eat that crap?" he asked. I shoveled half the cheeseburger in my mouth. "It's just nasty."
"I like MacDonald's," I said. It was true. I loved a nice warm cheeseburger with extra onions.
Nate shook his head. "It's vile. No one should eat that stuff. Why can't you just get a Snicker's bar for lunch like everyone else?"
Character
I don't think anything you've posted here would get you in trouble. But I do think it's going to be walking a fine line where preaching is concerned.
"The entire book is about a cultural purification movement." This scares me a little. This is not a plot or a story, it's a message. And as they say, "If you want to send a message, use Western Union." What's the plot, what's the story?
If the character comes across as preaching, if the novel is largely diatribe, or even merely a vehicle to express youur personal views, you're in trouble.
Dario D. said:
I don't think anything you've posted here would get you in trouble. But I do think it's going to be walking a fine line where preaching is concerned.
"The entire book is about a cultural purification movement." This scares me a little. This is not a plot or a story, it's a message. And as they say, "If you want to send a message, use Western Union." What's the plot, what's the story?
If the character comes across as preaching, if the novel is largely diatribe, or even merely a vehicle to express youur personal views, you're in trouble.
Dario D. said:
Sure we could all do lots of things. Heck I use DOS as a swear word in four novels. The question is, does it help the story? Only you can make that call. (The remark does sound a bit "South Parkish" to me, but that's just me.)
As for getting in trouble, the only thing Daw (or Penguin's) lawyers have ever had me remove are song lyrics.
Dario D. said:
Well, free speech does have limitations. You can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater unless there really is a fire.
And there are certainly libel and slander laws that regulate what can and can't be said.
As for censoring someting, your publisher can censor anythng they wish to censor, just as you can.
I think you'll be fine, as long as you make it clear that the statements are only opinion. You can only make statements of fact if you can prove they are facts, but opinion is pretty much allowed for anything and everyone.
But there are two sides to publishing. Just because you're legally allowed to have a character say something in no way means a publisher has to publish it, or won't insist on changes if they do buy it. Just as you have the right to free speech, publishers, distributors, bookstores, and readers all have the right to disavow that speech, and the opinions contained therein.
In other words, most are aware that the Constitution gives us all teh right to free speech. Most seem unaware that it also gives us all the right not to have to hear that speech. Freedom of speech is no more guaranteed than freedom from speech.
Try, for example, selling a short story or article saying that Fords sucks to a magazine that relies of Ford for advertising dollars.
But I still wonder what the plot is, what the story is?
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benbradley said:And is Tornadoboy in a State Of Anger, or what???
Who, little 'ol me?
Yeah sorry about that, the topic (not the question or the person asking) struck a nerve because a formerly favorite author of mine had sort of stuck it to me the week before, and in a real cocky way.
I guess my point is that using fiction to vent extremely harsh personal opinions about people, places and things can be risky business, weigh things carefully before taking the chance on alienating part of your readership.
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