Fantasy does not require research... evidently.

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kct webber

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So I was sitting in a café not long ago, talking to some people about books. This guy (a writer) informed me, in no uncertain terms, that Fantasy doesn’t require research. He could not see any evidence of even the smallest level of research in any fantasy that he ever read and, further, he assured me that he could write a Fantasy novel ‘from the hip’.

I can only speak from the context of my own work, but I have researched numerous areas of study in great detail. I have rummaged through sociology, politics, military strategy and tactics, psychology, spy-craft/espionage tech, weapons, martial arts, physics, and many, many other areas.

This has made me a bit curious. Perhaps I’m just a bit sheltered, but I have never heard anyone say that before.

I know how I responded and there was a tone. I’ll leave it at that. :e2fight:


But how would you respond? Do you find research necessary for your Fantasy works?
 

johnzakour

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I only have one fantasy novel coming and I've got to admit I didn't do any research. The thing is I don't believe I'm the norm. (In fact most people would say I'm anything but normal.)
 

MMcC

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I'm sure he could write a fantasy novel "from the hip." It would be a very, very bad one, but whatever.

Maybe he should stop shooting "from the lip" without a threadbare wisp of clue.
 

Alex Bravo

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It depends. Some fantasies yes, others no. JK Rowling had to have done much research for hers, but then I think that's why hers are so good.

My fantasy is loaded with research. In fact, I have an expert in the field going over it right now to tell me areas I may have erred.

Although, it's funny that he says he could write one easily enough, um, yeah, okay, try it, and then try to get published. Writing is like putting in golf where everyone thinks they can do it. Most people think hitting a golf ball with a driver or iron is harder than putting. It isn't. To beginners, yes, but the better golfers know that to score, they have to putt well because every good golfer hits the ball about the same. Do you know who wins golf tournaments each week? The person who putts best. Tiger Woods has hit terrible sometimes, and still won because he was putting very well. But no one wins tournaments when they putt bad.

So, everyone can putt, but only a few can putt well. Same with writing. Everyone can write, but only a few can write well.

Heck, I thought I could write ten years ago. Now I read my old stuff and wonder what I was thinking. And I'm sure ten years from now I'll wonder what I was thinking today...
 

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I can't go more than a few pages without having to stop and research styles of armor, crests, medieval buildings, 16th century meals, rhyme schemes in religious hymns, and that's just in one chapter of my humorous goblin tales. If I were writing a serious novel, I imagine the research would be even more intensive...
 

Marian Perera

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Oh man, I wish that guy could have seen the amount of research I put into my fantasy novels.

I have read up on copper mining, primitive steam engines, calcium carbide, thought disorders, behavioral psychology, ciphers, quorum sensing, autopsies, armies and warfare in ancient ages - and I've incorporated all these (one way or another) into fantasy novels. I'd like to see any fantasy novel that person could write "from the hip".
 

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It's a matter of choice. I don't research mine at all. Some types of fantasy are essentially alternative history and require it, others don't. This guy probably reads the latter type.
 
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RG570

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I thought in fantasy, you could make it all up. Why would I research sixteenth century europe if I'm making up something totally new? I mean, other than plain facts like how heavy and fragile a sword really is and such, or other minor technicalities, but I'd hardly call that kind of trivia "research".

I always get a bit miffed when people cry out against this or that, saying "but that would never happen in XXXX!" Well yeah, that's why it's fantasy and not historical fiction. . . if I want to read about what sixteenth century england was like, I'd read about that, not about goblins and dragons and places with funny made-up names. When I pick up a fantasy novel, I expect to not have to deal with reality, or anything remotely resembling reality.
 

johnzakour

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It all depends. Before I started writing I had decades of reading fantasy and mythology and playing and designing fantasy adventure games under my belt. Plus I already had martial arts and archery and sword training...

So yes, I did actually write a YA fantasy from the hip but it was a well trained hip. Is it a good YA fantasy? You can all be the judges around August or September.

As for my SF, I do research that more. (Though usually that research is mailing one of my quantum physics friends at Cornell and asking, "how feasible is this?")

I think the only rule is all the rules are subjective and flexible.
 

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I look up and research all kinds of silly things when I'm writing fantasy. Styles of swords, stances, how an airship might work, systems of mysticism, and I even took an archey class just so I could describe my character stringing a bow.
 

jchines

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Sure, you're making it all up. And as a writer, it's your job to make it believable. There are an awful lot of trivial details that go into building a coherent, consistent world. And some of your readers won't care, but some will.

What kind of glassmaking skills would be available in a culture where folks are running around with steel broadswords? What armor are people likely to wear if rapiers are the dominant weapon? What kind of trees do you need to build a good navy? What kind of rock formations would you have in the obsidian tunnels of your goblin lair?

If you already know this stuff, you're all set. John had a lot of background, so he probably doesn't need to do as much research as I do. Me, my brain leaks something fierce, so I spend a lot of time researching the details.

I'm particularly happy about the tunnels in my goblin lair ... my first draft had very bland gray stone tunnels. When I actually did some research, I was able to add a lot more detail about the kind of obsidian and the malachite formations that would show up over the lake, and it essentially made the whole world a much more real place. Sure, I made it up. And sure, most readers wouldn't have known or cared that you can't get stalactites in obsidian tunnels and caverns. But some would have. And I would have.
 

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RG570 said:
When I pick up a fantasy novel, I expect to not have to deal with reality, or anything remotely resembling reality.

I can't name one worthwhile fantasy novel that isn't even remotely based on reality. Just because it has dragons or elves or magic doesn't mean EVERYTHING in the story is made up.

I did research on castles and medieval life when I wrote my novel. You can't just have horses that can run all day, none stop, for hundreds of miles. You can't have people setting up camp and eating stew. You can't fence with a broadsword. There's all sorts of things you call trivial that require real research to get an understanding of, otherwise people will be picking the story apart.

kct webber said:
So I was sitting in a café not long ago, talking to some people about books. This guy (a writer) informed me, in no uncertain terms, that Fantasy doesn’t require research. He could not see any evidence of even the smallest level of research in any fantasy that he ever read and, further, he assured me that he could write a Fantasy novel ‘from the hip’.
Personally? I'd have challenged the guy. "OK, tough guy, write me a fantasy novel from the hip without any research and I'll decide if it sucks or not."
 

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Yeah, it's a fantasy. Not only does it not require any research on your part, but the majority of your readers (you freaks like medievalist excepted...) couldn't care less if you researched or not. How else to explain Shanarra or Eragon or, for God's sake, Harry Potter?
 

Marian Perera

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cinders23 said:
I think doing research makes the fantasy come across as more believable...if that makes any sense.

I feel the same way, and I enjoy George R. R. Martin's novels for just that reason. The details add verisimilitude. Sure, I can write about characters hiding in the shafts of a copper mine. But if I mention a few details about how the mining is done, along with a primitive breathing apparatus and a few old bones turned bright green thanks to carbonate of copper, doesn't it seem that much more authentic?

Some fantasies don't need to feel real (Tanith Lee's novels or The Last Unicorn) but I'd personally find it odd if an army of a million men was living in primitive conditions during a siege but no one ever got sick. I like a fantasy to have some connection with reality - the fantastic elements are made all the better for it.
 

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Fantasy needs research. First of all, this post is excluding historical fantasy which needs tons of research.

The first thing you need for most fantasy is a setting. The setting is built usually (or always) with aspects of our world. This means in order to build a world, you must know your world first. Not an easy task. Secondly, if you are placing it in a different time than ours (which the majority of fantasy writers do) you need to have some idea about the times. You need to know how politics worked back then, you need to know what people ate, what jobs people did, what people wore, etc. etc. etc.

From there there can be many, many more things to research. First of all, you need to build the world. For that you need geography, you need to know how the world looks like, you need to be able to "see" the world. You need to know which parts of the land are settled, how many people settle in one spot, where to raw materials come from, etc.

After that, there are tons of things to research more specific to your work. If you are using aspects of other works, like authors such as Tolkien, Brooks, and Jordan do, you will need to know those things. Usually that means burying your nose in mythology books for hours on end. You may need to research a point in history that your book is matching, such as George R. R. Martin researching the War of the Roses. Or perhaps you are completely unique, and are trying to use nothing from outside. You still will need to know about your world. You still will need mental or visual notes about the history of your world, the geography, demography, sociology, politics, and "laws" of your world. It is never easy to write anything, and fantasy does require research.

As for urban fantasy or fantasy set on our world, there still is a need for research. You still will need to map out the city, create laws for magic and other fantastical elements, know the place you are writing about. You see this in works by authors like Charles de Lint who know the city they are working on better than a real city.

There is always research to be done, and I would think it takes more work to write a good fantasy than it does to write regular fiction. Just think about it; To write fiction you need a plot. OK, so you have a boy who had a nervous breakdown walking around in New York. From there, all you need to do is know a little about New York, know your character, and know where the story is going to take him. Now lets say we tell this story in a fantasy world. You still need a city, but instead of just looking at maps and city books, you need to write them. You need to create the city, to know the city better than you know a real city. After that, you need to know about the magic, you need to know what is different about this city than a real city. After that, the work is about the same as a regular fiction book. You still need to take the steps to write the book, but fantasy required that extra work at the beginning.

So, do you need research and pre-work? Defiantly.
 
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jchines

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I also believe that good research should blend into the story in most cases ... as opposed to (for example) having two characters stopping for a three-page discussion about the mating habits of desert horses. If all of those painstakingly researched details are sprinkled smoothly into the story, most readers will never consciously notice. But that doesn't mean the details don't matter...
 

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dclary said:
Yeah, it's a fantasy. Not only does it not require any research on your part, but the majority of your readers (you freaks like medievalist excepted...) couldn't care less if you researched or not. How else to explain Shanarra or Eragon or, for God's sake, Harry Potter?
yes, but look on the other side of the spectrum. Look at popular works by authors like Robert Jordan. Jordan worked years before he started writing working on every little detail of his world. Mixing it with legends, songs, different clothing, dialects, customs, etc. Look how his work compares to the others. A well read fantasy reader will catch these things. You are comparing children's books to all fantasy here. Oh yes, Brooks' work, Eragon and Rowling's work are popular, but who are reading those books? As for Eragon, Poloini (Sp?) got lucky, and found a publisher willing to put thousands of dollars into mass advertising for him. Brooks actually did do quite a bit of world building with his work, and although I don't like to read him, I must admit he knew at least how to write, and used some original things. Harry Potter has research done as well. Rowling knows about her magic and stuff, and she clearly stated that she took years planning out her book before beginning to write. These works do and did have planning (well perhaps not Eragon, but I don't consider that a readable book) and took the authors countless hours before they could write.

As for fantasy readers not liking them. Well this is a big generalization, but I find amateur readers, younger readers, and beginner readers more inclined not to care. As for readers who have read the genre for years, they will catch these things. I know plenty of well read people who can't get through books like Eragon, or The Sword of Truth simply because the world building, and the writing are so bad. There are plenty of readers who wont touch books where the author doesn't know anything about the world. Just look at a lot of popular books. The extremely successful ones, aside from some rare books, all have a lot of work put into them. Robin Hobb, Terry Pratchet, Tolkien, Robert Jordan, Guy Gavriel Kay all have researched before they began to write. Where would they be without it? Well Jordan's world would fall apart, Tolkien's world wouldn't be even close to what it was (those languages don't just pop into his head on the spot, he needed to full out write them). Robin Hobb's world would break in half, Pratchett would cease to be funny, and Guy Gavriel Kay's work wouldn't make any sense since he uses too much history.
 
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badducky

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When I hear that, I usually just nod and go *Right*...

Also, if they push the issue: "Well, good luck with that and tell me how it goes."
 

johnzakour

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Writers write different ways. Different readers enjoy different kinds of books. That's why book stores are so big.
 

MattW

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JBI said:
yes, but look on the other side of the spectrum. Look at popular works by authors like Robert Jordan. Jordan worked years before he started writing working on every little detail of his world. Mixing it with legends, songs, different clothing, dialects, customs, etc. Look how his work compares to the others. A well read fantasy reader will catch these things.
Martin would have been the better example. Jordan has taken his research too seriously in some cases, and forgotten about the story. Do I care about pages and pages of detail on who is wearing what outfit?

Research is important to get details right, but all too often authors are proud of the knowledge they have poured over and are all too willing to share.

Sometimes less is more.
 

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I didn't do much research for my first book, because it was my own world. I did look up some stuff about castles, because I needed it.

My series, however, uses the mythology of different cultures. I spent hours on sites about Ancient Egypt, watching shows on History channel, so I wouldn't do something out of whack. I made up the background of the story, but needed the research.

I'm doing the same with the next one, and I need information about China, Chinese magic and mythology. It's quite a bit of work, but enjoyable.

I wouldn't call mythology 'historical' fiction.
 

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Oh for pete's sake. Diss Harry Potter all you want, it's all a matter of taste. But you can't say the woman didn't do research. Most of her monsters are from myth and she throws in little hommages here and there, like how the three headed dog was sold to hagrid by some greek fellow, get it get it? The Hippogriph (sp?) is a real mythological creature which JK found and tweaked a bit. She's no fool. You might not like the writing style, or the stories, but don't say she didn't do her research, that's just being petty.
 

Alex Bravo

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More than petty, perhaps uninformed. The names of the Harry Potter spells usually mean something. Most of her magical creatures were based on something, as opposed to being completely made up. I also thought it was neat, at the world quiddich match how she had other magical creatures that went with their country of origin. How could anyone have missed that? Oh, and that type of work is considered research...
 
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