Fanfiction: To do or not to do?

My personal opinion. I have no interest in fanfic whatsoever. I think if you are going to put time and effort into a piece of writing it might as well be something you created yourself. Then you can sell if you so choose and not have to worry about copyright.

While I'm not sure if posting fanfic online will hurt you. It definitely won't help you.

I wrote a few Star Trek fanfics when I was eighteen and all excited about Deep Space Nine. Then along came Voyager. I started writing my own stuff.

I really didn't write enough fanfic for it to affect me one way or another, but I do remember that I had a different ship and my own characters (a computer with a personality, a promiscuous female science officer, a handicapped Klingon doctor, etc.) so I knew that even back then, I wanted to do something different from the norm. And Voyager didn't seem like it was all that interested in boldly going where no one had gone before.

This has been discussed to death in many, many other places (here's a good start if you're interested), and it's a very emotionally charged issue that makes it understandably hard for the more seriously invested writers who are writing it to see criticism of it as anything other than criticism of themselves.

Ultimately, fanfiction wastes your time. Writing about your favorite characters isn't something new; lots of people do it and have done it for a long time. And when you're fourteen or maybe just inexperienced and trying your wings, it's time you would have spent daydreaming about that crush anyway.

The problem is that the advent of the internet and the easy lure of feedback for posting what are, for most fanfiction writers, essentially masturbation or escapist fantasies makes it very, very easy to get diverted out of writing for yourself as a career and into writing for yourself as a hobby and perhaps some praise from random strangers. And when you throw in the legal ramifications of publishing the stuff -- because apparently the internet is considering "publishing" -- and the fact that the internet never really forgets anything, it becomes something that could potentially haunt you for a very long time.

Is it outright hurtful? Depends on who you ask. Legal? Depends on where you live, I suppose. Moral? I know what I think about it. Hilarious as all get out to read about people who should probably be spending more time outdoors instead of kerfluffling over something like who Harry Potter might be dating a few years after the series ends or thinking up cute names like "Spuffy" for their favorite tv character's relationship? Oh, very. Especially because some of them are so deadly serious about it.

I should add that I've thought about it, and I've changed my opinion on whether or not writing fanfiction helps you learn to write better. I think it can, assuming you miss the pitfall outlined above and avoid being tainted by the association with the vast numbers of really bad writers who write fanfic.

The rub is that it doesn't help you improve any more than writing original stuff and joining a critique group does, and at the end of the fanfiction road, all you're left with is memories of people you were internet friends with and works you can't really call your own, no matter how much you loved them at the time.

Oh, and possibly a Cease and Desist letter autographed by your favorite author's lawyers, too.

bylinebree:
How many of you have done fanfic and found it useful to your writing career? Any suggestions, or is the sky the limit in fanfic?

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Yeah, I wrote fanfic. Much of the advantages and disadvantages have already been set out by soloset. It is very rare to get any kind of constructive feedback on fanfic and depending on what your fandom is, it can be difficult to get people to go and read it. You'll find that you spend an awful lot of time promoting it, which you could be using in coming up with your own work. You'll also find that there isn't a lot of scope for doing anything different with fanfic - if you don't do a popular pairing or you don't subscribe to a particular characterisation of a main character, then you have to work that much harder to (a) get people to read it and (b) get people to review it.

That said, fanfic can give you a lot of confidence and help you develop a thicker skin (form rejection slips will seem like mana from heaven when you see the pasting some fans will give you if they disagree with your characterisations). I also think that when you're starting out and uncertain of how to write, it can give you a good idea of maintaining characterisation and plot pace because the toys are already there and set up, leaving you free to run with them.

Ultimately though, given that you're already producing your own original work I'd say you're much better off not setting a toe down the fanfic path. Instead, concentrate on your own work and find a critique group/course/really honest friend who reads a lot to help you improve it. It'll save you time, make you feel more productive and means you won't ever face the dilemma of thinking "haven't I already used this plot point/line of dialogue/character trait in one of my fanfics?"

soloset:
possibly a Cease and Desist letter autographed by your favorite author's lawyers, too.

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Yes, but it depends on your fandom. If you're into Harry Potter, you're pretty much in the clear as she doesn't take action. If you like writing Lestat though, then be prepared for a C&D smackdown as Rice's lawyers show no mercy.

I used to write X-Files fanfic, ages ago. Recently, I've written some POTC stuff. It's not going to help you much in your writing, like many other people above have said.
Personally, I write it to relax, generally when I've become blocked or when I'm losing hart over the project I'm working on. I take a break, I write a bit of fanfic: it doesn't recquire much thinking; I'm not worrying about if it'll be good enough for publishing, so I'm just focusing on the writing, and it exercises the right mental muscles. And then I'm ready to get back to my "Serious" writing.
Bottom line is, no one can tell you whether you should write fanfic or not. You're the one who has to sit down and figure out if it's bringing you any kind of satisfaction, or if it's just cutting into your writing time. And then decide.

Oh, and just to be annoying: technically The Wide Sargasso Sea is fanfiction, as is Scarlett, and The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and some other which I can't remember the name right now, but mixes Lovecraft and Sherlock Holmes.

Momento Mori said:

I also think that when you're starting out and uncertain of how to write, it can give you a good idea of maintaining characterisation and plot pace because the toys are already there and set up, leaving you free to run with them.

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This is the most important thing that I took away from days writing fanfic. I was and am still very proud of a serial that I wrote for one fandom. Fifteen connected stories that told one long, arcing story. I checked the total word counts on all of them once, not long ago, and realized that I had a 95k novel in my hands, if only I could make it somehow....mine.*

If you want to post the stories you have written to an online archive, use a psuedonym that no one knows. I made the horrible, terrible mistake of posting mine under my real name. Search for me, that's all you get.

Post them, get them out of your system, and then continue to work on your pro stories. I have loads of unfinished fandom stories on my hard drive, but no desire to finish them now that I have publication goals. Fanfic writing *can* help you improve your writing, but only if you avoid the quagmire (see posts above mine).


*And I've figured it out, it will just take lots and lots of character tweaking and world-building.

I wrote fanfiction very successfully for a number of years. By successfully (which I can't seem to spell properly this morning) what I mean is, I was able to write a series of stories, one every week or so, and maintain a steady audience that kept coming back.

(if you're not familiar with fanfiction: one of the big fads, back when I did it, was to create your own "series" with seasons, a certain number of episodes, everything. Not just one off stories, but actual series. I did it for three years.)

I learned how to maintain a body of characters. I learned how to appeal to readers. I learned how to tell a story, beginning, middle, and end. I learned how to extend a story for several episodes without it becoming dull (something which eventually filtered into my novel writing).

I learned a lot from fanfiction. When I started, I was just cutting my teeth writing. When I finished, I was able to tell good stories about people you would care about. Some of what I'd written doesn't hold up so well, but a lot of it still reads comfortably and tells an interesting story.

I have no problem with fanfiction. Or at least, the fanfiction of the period when I was doing it. I'm loathe to use the word "generation," but the next generation of fanfiction seems to have gone for self gratification and bad writing more than anything else. Most of us who were involved then wrote to get better, wrote to entertain, and most of all, wrote as much as we damn well could.

These days, I see a lot of self-indulgent tripe. I suppose there was always probably a fair bit of that. Now, it's just dominant.

...

One of the biggest arguments against fanfiction (or, sometimes condescendingly made for fanfiction) is, "You're not creating your own characters or universe, right? So it's easier. You're just playing with someone else's toys, instead of your own."

Again, I created all my own characters, all my own stories, all my own problems and resolutions and settings and everything. I was playing in someone else's sandbox (Star Trek) but short of occasionally making references to show you where I was in the continuity, the series I wrote. My stories were my own.

I wrote TONS of fanfiction for years and found it a great way to work on developing the writing skills to move into original works - I still dabble in it at times just to get an idea out of my head or work on some sort of concept.

Personally, I enjoyed the rapid feedback from the readers. I could post an X-Files or Stargate SG-1 fanfic and get feedback within the hour from fans who either thought it sucked greatly or that it was fantastic.

nice, that.



(my fanfic: X-Files, Stargate SG-1, CSI, Kim Possible, Dark Angel, Avatar:The Last Airbender)

The audience, interestingly enough, was generally not terribly literate. If your story sucked, your feedback would generally be "this sukked, ur lame" or something similar. They read, but they can't write. Lord knows why.

But the interesting thing about this is, you learn to write to appeal to an audience which is not literary, that reads but has no desire to write, nor the ability to, generally. What this means is, you wind up writing stories for casual readers, passer-by readers, but you also are writing stories that deeper readers will also find interesting.

(Well, I was. You can please yourself.)

(I wrote a series called Star Trek: Starship Khitomer. I just bet you you can still find seasons 1 and 2 online somewhere. I never took them down.)

If you enjoy it, do it. Just don't try to make money off of it.

Wicked was fanfiction, and in my opinion was of the canon-abusing mental masturbation sort.

I'm a devoted fanfic writer, been doing it for years and will update my latest HP fanfic with a new chapter tonight. Fanfic is Writing For A Market 101; not 201, just 101. It's a taste of what happens when you move beyond merely writing for idle amusement to writing in the hopes that it amuses others. The needs of editors, agents and fandom readers are not dissimilar. "Ye gods, another Draco/Snape marries Hermione because the wizarding world passes a Marriage Law? Has this writer given us anything fresh and new, have they taken a tired and done-to-death premise and made it their own or is this exactly like the other 361,989 fics about the same thing? No? NEXT. *backbutton*" Fanfic is audience-driven writing with training wheels. Someone has already put the pedestrian basics in place: they've done the worldbuilding, created the characters and wooed a fan base. All that's left to the fanfic writer is to demonstrate that they can not only write, but they can write something strangers will want to read.

Or, that's what I do with fanfic, anyhow. It's as deep as you make it. Some use it as a social hobby, some as a writing exercise to get the creative muscles loosened up, some as a means of self-instruction (practise, in other words - what happens when I do this? Or this? Can I write well enough to pull this off? Am I Sartre, Jean-Paul or Sandler, Adam?)

Besides, it gives a fan something to do while waiting for the blasted seventh book to hit B&N.

I restate my point. There is *nothing* fanfiction can offer you that isn't equally available when you write your own, original fiction, join a critique group, and try to get published.

Except, of course, for the nearly instant and ego-gratifying feedback. And the well-balanced, friendly communities known as "fandoms" and all the completely real, completely honest friends you'll make there.

CasualObserver said:

Fanfic is audience-driven writing with training wheels. Someone has already put the pedestrian basics in place: they've done the worldbuilding, created the characters and wooed a fan base. All that's left to the fanfic writer is to demonstrate that they can not only write, but they can write something strangers will want to read.

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How can you "demonstrate that you can write" when you're leaving out half the equation?

Yes, I'm aware there are various levels of originality from the authors involved, from the virtual scene rehash fics all the way through to "new generation" Star Trek series. But the vast majority of fanfiction falls in the middle to rehash end of the spectrum.

And I'm wondering if you really meant to say that you consider doing all the worldbuilding, creating the characters, and wooing the fan base for an original world to be the "pedestrian basics". If so, I'm sure all the authors out there who've put imagination, sweat, and toil into those "pedestrian basics" are grateful for the chance to provide fanfiction writers with a platform so they can show off some real writing.

And you're not "writing what strangers want to read". You're writing what your audience, a group of people who have come together for an express purpose, are explicitly looking for. Your particular flavor might not appeal to all of them, but in general you're writing to a pre-sold audience.

Like PeeDee, I wrote Trek fanfic for a loooooong time. Enjoyed it immensely. Made a number of good cyber friends who are still friends to this day. Some even became meatspace friends.

All of the good things mentioned above are true. All of the bad things, too. One thing I found it did was suck my creative energy to the point I didn't work on my own stuff at all for a long while.

But I miss it, still.

Do fic if you want.

1) Use a pen name. (Thus protecting your career as a pro writer.)

2) Stay off the copyright holder's radar. (As in don't mail your stuff to them or sell it on Amazon. Sheesh.)

3) If certain writers don't want their work used in fanfic, just respect their wishes. There's plenty out there who don't give a hoot.

4) Check to see if anything you like is in the Public Domain. You could have something to sell.

And have fun.

The masterful pwning-ness of the above lacks only a link to Lee Goldberg in the bibliography and the assertion that you know exactly what motivates me because you're an internet psychologist.

I could pop off a tl;dr post with myriad, complex and defensive riposts but, really, that would smack of considering fanfiction to be serious business. In summation: ... and? I also like karaoke and playing pool at the local pubs. Feel free to dislike my hobbies and my methods; your ire is wasted but, please, feel free.

Gillhoughly said:

2) Stay off the copyright holder's radar. (As in don't mail your stuff to them or sell it on Amazon. Sheesh.)

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People sell fanfics on Amazon? Wow.

I've only written one 'fan-fic' that I haven't kept locked away on my computer hard drive, and unless you've heard of "The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai: Across the Eight Dimension" then you'd have no idea what I'm talking about.

Funny Note: Buckaroo Banzai sounds like a horrible B movie with a bunch of no names...yet it stars Peter Weller, Christopher Lloyd, Jon Lithgow, the cable repair man from Independence Day. After Robocop and Back to the Future, too.

Weird.

Second Funny Note: If you haven't seen Buckaroo Banzai, then you're doing yourself a disservice. It's got one of the weirdest, best presented sci-fi plots ever. And it's got a great musical opening/end credits.

Lois McMasters Bujold.
Mercedes Lackey

Both SF authors who wrote/write fanfic, and have moved on to published work. I can name a number of others; several are friends who wrote fanfic for several years, and all have sold novels within the last two years, in the US, the UK, and Australia. (Note the plural: novelS.) Some of the top fanfic writers in the Stargate fandom wound up with publishing contracts to write tie-in novels, and all have published their own original work--sometimes before their tie-ins. (I don't name everyone because while they are "out" in the various fandoms I'm familiar with, I'm not sure they want to be outed in general.)

I met my best writing coach ever writing fanfic, and I learned a lot about what it takes to put a story together and hold an audience's interest and move a plot along. It was a very safe sandbox in which to play when I first started writing again after oh-so-many-years of stifling those urges. But I also picked up some bad habits that I'm trying to break, as in not needing to explain my characters' motivations because everyone knows them already, right?

There is a ton of dreck out there in fanfic, and probably more dreck than anything else now. But I've also read fanfic that's better than anything I've ever seen published. It's like any other endeavour, you get out of it what you put into it. If you look for those tip of the iceberg awesome writers and cultivate relationships with them, you can learn a lot. It can be a fun sandbox to play in for a break, and it can be an ego boost when nothing else seems to be going right. It can even get you published, as I mentioned above.

Ultimately, people tend to fall into two camps with fanfiction: Love it or hate it, enjoy it or think it's ridiculous and why in the world would you want to waste your time. I've rarely if ever seen anyone decamp from their position. Truth is, the Aeneid was fanfic, as were most of the Arthurian stories considered literature today. There's a whole conversation going on about the fact that our modern mythology is corporate-owned, and how fanfic and songvidding and whatnot are simply humans doing what humans have always done, recreating and rewriting the legends and epics of their culture to include themselves and their dreams and desires.

If you enjoy fanfic, then enjoy it. Write it, play with it, indulge yourself. But be realistic and understand that, like any other hobby, it can either inform or hinder your original writing and your dreams of publication.

Queen of Swords said:

People sell fanfics on Amazon? Wow.

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It's been done. http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/007459.html

Meanwhile: as to whether to write 'em or not. No writing is wasted. It all counts for experience in putting words on paper.

CasualObserver said:

The masterful pwning-ness of the above lacks only a link to Lee Goldberg in the bibliography and the assertion that you know exactly what motivates me because you're an internet psychologist.

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Eh, you missed the link to his blog in my first post? It's "A Writer's Life" -- I linked directly to the fanfic section, but the self-publishing discussions are fascinating as well.

CasualObserver said:

I could pop off a tl;dr post with myriad, complex and defensive riposts but, really, that would smack of considering fanfiction to be serious business. In summation: ... and? I also like karaoke and playing pool at the local pubs. Feel free to dislike my hobbies and my methods; your ire is wasted but, please, feel free.

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Or you could assess what I've said and politely refute any of the points I've made that you disagree with or clarify any of your own I've misunderstood. Just a, yanno, option.

To some extent, I think fanfiction IS a serious business, for all the hysterically funny aspects of teh crazier parts of it and for all I like to poke fun at the POTC/My Little Pony crossover crowd.

Whether we like it or not, fanfiction, and the copyright issues around it, have an impact on us as professional and aspiring-to-be-professional writers, and an impact on how the public in general perceives us, our works, and our rights as authors.

For the record, I feel nothing even close to "ire" right now towards you or on the subject of fanfiction in general. I'll admit to being a bit shocked at the statements you made above that I discussed in my last post, though, and I would have liked to hear your rebuttal or explanation of them, as I'm pretty sure I must have misunderstood you.

One minor quibble -- pool and karaoke are, as far as I know, unequivocally legal in most places.

Fanfic can be part of a writer's development or a cul de sac. Personally I found it useful and do have some online but I would suggest sticking to posting out of copyright or authorised stuff.

veinglory said:

Fanfic can be part of a writer's development or a cul de sac. Personally I found it useful and do have some online but I would suggest sticking to posting out of copyright or authorised stuff.

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It can definitely be a cul de sac. I know a wonderful fanfiction writer who tells very solid stories about very likable characters in a Star Trek setting, and yet....despite many suggestions, he refuses to write original works. It's a shame. He'd do wonderfully.

CasualObserver....let's be friendly here. we're all jes' folk, and we're all jes' talking.

soloset said:

Or you could assess what I've said and politely refute any of the points I've made that you disagree with or clarify any of your own I've misunderstood. Just a, yanno, option. [snip] I'll admit to being a bit shocked at the statements you made above that I discussed in my last post, though, and I would have liked to hear your rebuttal or explanation of them, as I'm pretty sure I must have misunderstood you.

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I was fairly certain you were aware it was a misunderstanding, which is why I didn't bother. I won't engage with people who strike me as spoiling for an argument and, to be honest, that was the impression I gathered from your post. For the record, being among writers I assumed we all had sufficient experience with worldbuilding to know how difficult and time-consuming it is. The worst frothing at the mouth reviews for a fanfic aren't for bad writing, they're reserved for the sin of abusing our beloved canon. Both points are obvious enough to (presumably) not require a mention.

To some extent, I think fanfiction IS a serious business, for all the hysterically funny aspects of teh crazier parts of it and for all I like to poke fun at the POTC/My Little Pony crossover crowd.

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Ahahaha, good times, man. Fandoms bring the crazy, too right. I have a HP/Ghostbusters crossover that at first made me wonder what in the blue blazes the writer had been thinking of, but was so excellent that I saved it and reread it periodically for some good laughs. Never did find a decent HP/CSI crossover and don't think such a creation exists; Grissom is never written in character and that just ruins it for me.

One minor quibble -- pool and karaoke are, as far as I know, unequivocally legal in most places.

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Now you're just pandering to my secret mental image of being a dashing criminal mastermind.

The only thing I don't understand is slash fiction. I'm sorry. I don't get it.

Particularly Knight Rider slashfic. Good god.

Edited to point out how very passionately I HATE FURRIES, fanfic or otherwise.